resizing die

S

sonofcops

Inactive
Hello All,
I joined to ask some questions as well as gain some knowledge of course but have subsequently found the answer to my question. I figured I would post what I found and ask for feedback. I was having an issue on my 550b getting my 308 to headspace to 1.060 with RCBS die. I am new to reloading and have watched/read many hours of reloading techniques and setting dies and never once, until watching a Dillon video, heard about setting the die lower than the face plate if need be. It's on their site and was nice to see that they took the time to show that it may be necessary to lower the sizing die an 1/8"-1/4" turn beyond the face plate, with out risking damage. I'm sure many of you know this but I thought to post for beginners like me. BTW I am excited as hell to fire my first loads but at the same time want to wear a blast shield. I am confident and meticulous but the first time is nerve racking.
 
Sonofcops, welcome.

It has always been that way, the die can be adjusted to the shell plate/shell holder or it can be adjusted to below contact with the shell holder or it can be adjusted off/above the shell holder. Then there is the feeler gage. It can be used to take out all the wild ‘guestimates’.

There are fractional turns and turns in degrees based on .071” for one turn. The reloader can also measure the height of the die above the press. No guessing, just go straight to verifying.

The one thing I can not do is adjust the head space of the case; my cases do not have head space. I have one rifle with a long chamber; it is .016” longer than a minimum length/full length sized case. I size 280 Remington cases to 30/06 cases by adding .014” between the shoulder and case head. That gives me the magic .002” clearance and cuts down on all that case travel if that is what it does.

F. Guffey

There are times the case has more resistance to sizing than the press can overcome, The threads on the dies and presses make it possible to overcome the resistance.
 
I *Think* what Mr. Guffey was trying to point out,
Headspace is in the rifle chamber,
What you are doing is sizing the brass for a specific distance between datum point on the shoulder to the base of the case, or the overall length from base to mouth.

IE: Not changing headspace in the rifle, simply sizing the case.

Mr. Guffey eluded to 'Feeler Gauges' but didnt explain.
If your case isn't making it far enough into the sizing die, for what ever reason,
You can use a feeler gauge to push the case 'Up' in the shell holder on a single press to get a little more compression on the case, all things being equal.

That would be hard to accomplish with a decapping/sizing die in a rotary progressive press since you would block the drop of the primer,
And shimming under a rotary shell plate would also be an issue keeping the shim in place as stations changed.

I have two Dillon XL650s, both allow the shell plate to deflect with large/hard cases.
They have enough ram to do the job, the shell plates allow deflection,
And it only gets worse the larger/longer the brass you are trying to resize.
The Dillon 1050 has the same issues, but the shell plate carrier is large enough you can add support from below, the XL650 has too thin and too small a 'Cup' around the shell plate to practically support the pressures involved.

I don't know about the 550, don't have one, not messed with one other than setting them up for other people. (No Modifications)
I only cut/modify my own machines.
 
Don't worry about 'Nerve Racking'...

Not all rifles are chambered the same,
Auto loaders often have larger, even sloppy chambers to facilitate the auto loading process.

Bolt rifles tend to be tighter chambers, but still often have over specification headspace (its the way they are headspaced at the factory).

Try this if your reloads are going through the same bolt rifle:
Try backing the sizing die off a few thousands at a time,
Just a hair!
With bolt guns, you can tell quite easily when you get too long for the headspace in your particular chamber,
The bolt will take more force to close.
When that happens, you detect drag, screw the die back 'In' a couple thousands at a time until there is no detectable drag,
And the headspace will be fitting your brass at that point.

Watch your powder charges, a Dillon high/low charge indicator will keep you out of trouble there, its close enough to prevent squibs & substantial overcharges that would cause serious damage.

Don't worry about a 'Blast Shield',
Its going to go 'Boom!' And with a high/low indicator the rounds are not going to damage anything.

Accuracy is effected by small mistakes,
Function/safety of the rifle are only effected by BIG mistakes.

If you use a magnum primer by mistake, its NOT going to blow anything up,
If you are a grain or two off one way or the other, its NOT going to blow anything up,
If you use a heavier or lighter bullet, a little one way or the other, its NOt going to blow up...

Now, if you way over charge with the wrong type of powder,
Say, fast burning handgun powder in a rifle, you can get into trouble.
If you mix powders, or fail to get the powder back into the correct can, you can get yourself into trouble...

Common safety practices,
Check your charge data from TWO different sources, to avoid misprints in the reloading manuals,
Having only ONE can of powder on the bench at a time,
Throwing a 'Check Charge' and weighing it several times while loading large batches of brass, making sure the powder thrower adjustment is NOT creeping is a good idea...
 
Mr. Guffey alluded to 'Feeler Gauges' but didn’t explain.
If your case isn't making it far enough into the sizing die, for what ever reason,
You can use a feeler gauge to push the case 'Up' in the shell holder on a single press to get a little more compression on the case, all things being equal.
Click to expand...
When the die is correctly adjusted to return the case to minimum length/full length size the operator of the press must understand the deck height of the shell holder/shell plate is .125”.

It has always been that way, the die can be adjusted to the shell plate/shell holder or it can be adjusted to below contact with the shell holder or it can be adjusted off/above the shell holder.
Click to expand...

If the reloader understand the die is adjusted to overcome the cases ability to resist sizing the same reloader must understand when the die does not make it to the shell holder/shell plate when the ram is at the top of its stroke the case did not get sized back to minimum length/full length sized.

Back to the companion tool to the press, the feeler gage; the reloader can measure the gap between the shell plate/shell holder to determine if the case won or the press won. I have no problem sizing case length between the shoulders to the case head in 26 different lengths.

WHY? If a sized case will not allow the bolt to close the reloader should be able to determine the cause. If a case will not allow the bolt to close the reloader should be able to determine the cause before chambering a round. I can measure the length of a case after sizing; I know the length of the chamber before sizing. There is not much about the threads placed on dies and in presses I do not understand.

Punching primers is not a problem when the big obvious problem is the failure of the reloader to understand sizing a case to minimum length/full length sized. One more time; I have chambers that require me to add to the length of the case between the shoulder to the head of the case. Again; I have one chamber that allows me to add .014” to the length of the case from the shoulder to the head of the case. For me it is a simple matter of adjusting the die off the shell holder .014”. And yes; I have to check the length of the case to make sure/verify my adjustments were made correctly.

F. Guffey
 
Thanks Guys,
All that info makes sense to me and yes I understand that I am not changing the headspace of my chamber but the size (shoulders) of the case, but I do realize it's important to be clear about these things. I have yet to come across the shimming aspect of the plates but will look into that particular method.
Thanks for the vote of confidence with the first loads being shot as well. I have much to learn, and seems everyone has a different way to explain the same results. One thing I personally need to do is focus on one rifle at a time since I have one semi and one bolt which obviously requires specific attention when hand loading for each. I have already gained some good info from experienced loaders already on this site. Good week to you all.
 
There was a post here last week about a guy that was having sizeing problems. First he ground the shell holder which is a bad idea. The broke his shell holder so he came on here asking what he could do. Myself and others explained that sometimes you have to grind the sizing die to get the cartridges to size to your headspace.
 
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