Republican Greatness?

L

Let it Bleed

New member
I frequently read posts that demonize all Democrats and imply that their goal is apparently the complete destruction of America. While I cannot imagine myself voting for Clinton or Obama, I am at a loss as to the overwhelming support a majority on this forum have for the Republican Party. Of course I realize that when it comes to the issue of gun ownership, the Republican position is far more to my liking and with this being a gun forum it isn’t exactly surprising that others feel the same way.

Therefore my questions are: What specifically appeals to you about Republicans or their position on the issues? And more importantly, what have Republicans done to increase your individual liberties and how have you benefited either financially or otherwise? And what have Republicans done to reduce the size or limit the power of the federal government?

I am not trying to bash Republicans. I consider both parties to be American. I am simply amazed at how well the Republican Party can frame a debate so that many people will vote against their own self-interest.

Therefore, as a Democrat who may be compelled to vote for the Republican candidate, I would greatly appreciate it if someone would at least try to set forth what is so great about the Republican Party without resort to denigrating the opposition.

Although I call myself a Democrat, I have never voted for a Democratic candidate for president. I truly believe the Democrats could increase their support significantly if they would reverse their position on gun-control. The vast majority of single issue voters regarding guns are pro-gun. I am hopeful that many of the rank and file Democrats are beginning to realize that supporting gun restriction loses a candidate far more votes than it gains. While I realize there is plenty of support for more gun laws, far fewer anti-gunners are single issue voters compared to those who adamantly support the RKBA.
 
Personal responsibility.

To traditional Republican viewpoints, you are responsible for your own actions and for their consequences. If you choose to work hard and become wealthy, good for you. You owe nothing to society or to those who did not choose to work hard. If you commit a crime, you are punished.

Democrats are just the opposite. Being rich is bad, and the rich have an obligation to pay for the lazy with government-enforced hands in their wallets. And crime is society's fault for not providing for everyone.

I firmly believe that every choice one makes, especially whether to commit a crime or not, is a choice made at that moment by the individual. It's not "upbringing", it's not "society", it's a matter of deciding to steal or pull a trigger with your own mind.

Republican viewpoints are far more compatible with that belief.

That's at least one major aspect of it, for me.
 
You've summed it up very nicly Manedwolf. Could add details but you have hit the core of it. Nice job.

I don't think that was the bite the bait expected though. :p
 
Though ManedWolf manages to quite happily ignore that people are the sum of their experiences. He's happy to throw the criminal in jail and ignore the social factors that are causing four more criminals to grow up to join him in twenty years. This doesn't fix anything, it just puts a bandage on the problem.

I've already argued the welfare point on these boards, but let me just recap by saying that nobody wants to give it to people who could work but just don't feel like it. And with all the rich people in the Democratic party, you better run over and remind them that being poor is a very important plank in their platform.

Oh, and on the traditional Republican viewpoints, I'll just say it's a doggone shame that traditional Republicans aren't in control of the Republican party anymore. Sounds like it would be a great party to vote for with a few modifications.
 
But then the last seven years.....the GOP has changed big time.
Education by Kennedy
Part D
TSA
Earmarks
"patriot" Act
Foriegn Policy
tax cuts just so they could get away with growing the Federal Budget even more.
Katrina
Zero Social security reform
The Border...or lack there of ("war on terror" half way around the world but the back door to the U.S. is wide open)

9/11 is not reason enough for such a collapse of principles
 
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You look at where the party has been in order to get a picture of where they are heading. Admittedly the R's are spending like drunken sailors and growing government like Democrats, but there are Republicans who are trying to get things back on course. The progression away from individual responsibility is why guys like Guliani are dangerous in the long run. Once an anti-gun Republican gets elected, the issue will never make it back into the party platform. On the other hand, what are the chances of finding a pro-gun, pro-life, pro-border, small-government Dem?
 
On the other hand, what are the chances of finding a pro-gun, pro-life, pro-border, small-government Dem?
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Hell we have a pro-gun, pro-life, pro-border, small-government Republican named Ron Paul and look at how "real" conservatives(ok neocons) in the party treat him.
 
The repubs are generally better in their beliefs than dems, but the best hope we have gun-wise is Ron Paul (but that's just me.)
 
Lesser of two evils

I'm a Libertarian leaning registered Republican, feeling forced to throw in with them because I don't feel now is the time to throw away a vote on a third party candidate when to do so would help one of the current crop of Democrats. In local/state races between moderate Rs and Ds (where the D isn't a totally evil collectivist), I do vote for the L on principle.

What the Republicans offer me: they protect my guns and my financial liberty. As long as I have money and the abililty to defend myself, I can probably buy or bully anything else I need.:D Want a stem cell based treatment? If you're rich enough, you can travel to where you can get it. Like Cuban cigars and Absinthe? Same deal. But if the gov't controls your cash, you'll only be doing what they let you.

Where the R's lose me:

1. Big gov't?!!! 'nough said.
2. Tort reform. Sure, frivolous lawsuits have gotten out of hand, but what we need is for the judgiciary to efficiently throw out junk cases, not tort reform. Unlimited tort is the great equalizer in a capitalist society.
3. Prudish, priggish stances on social issues
4. Pandering to religious folks
5. Actually....
...forget the list. I'm pretty much only a Republican for taxes, guns, and because they're not Democrats.:eek:

Live-and-let-die, mind-your-own-business Libertarians or Objectivists would make the best neighbors.:cool: I don't mind hanging with good Christian Republican type folks, either: they like guns, aren't afraid to work for a living, and can raise a functional family--I can live with the occasional attempts to save my soul.:rolleyes: What fuels my rage is collectivist Democrat muggers, who use fear, shame, false concern for their fellow man and faulty logic to get the weak-minded among us to give up liberities in exchange for the dubious "security" of Socialism.:mad:

If the only choice is to vote for the Socialist Party or the Moral Majority Party, I guess I'll be seeing you in church (provided I don't get struck down by lightening when I darken the church door).:D

I want to like Ron Paul, but I can't overlook the cut-and-run in Iraq thing. I don't care how we got there--even if it's because little green Martians planted false evidence of WMDs--now that we're there, we sure as shinola better win!
 
I'm personally very unsatisfied with both the Democrats and the Republicans. Both seem only intrested in serving themselves and the rest of the country could go to hell in a handbasket for all they care.

I'd vote Liberterian (pardon spelling, its late) but I dont think they're even on the ballot in my state. I can at least agree with their policy.

Between the curren crop of presidential candidates, I'd vote republican, simply because they scare me only slightly less than the democrats.

Its like being asked to choose between a scorpion and a snake.... which one would scare you less?
 
I'll play....

What specifically appeals to you about Republicans or their position on the issues?
Maybe it's because when someone on the Republican side of an issue talks, I see less emotionally-loaded phrases, more thoughtful discussion about solutions.

What have Republicans done to increase your individual liberties and how have you benefited either financially or otherwise?
Living in California means that for any kind of liberty gained federally, the state acts to remove some other liberty..or so it seems. For instance, now that the AWB has expired, it would be perfectly legal for me to purchase a "prohibited" AR-15 in another state as long as I never tried to bring it into CA. However, CA's DOJ has notified FFL's in neighboring states that they will attempt to prosecute the FFL if they sell such a firearm to a CA resident.

What have Republicans done to reduce the size or limit the power of the federal government?
Not much, I'll grant you. But limiting this question to just the federal government is, I think, misleading. A number of Republican city mayors and even a few governors have been able to cut government spending and/or downsize some agencies. A small town south of me ended up with a Republican majority a couple of years ago. A recent report showed they had reduced costs and real spending while maintaining services and streamlined a number of departments. Yet, while several surveys have shown either a 25% or 38% increase in approvals by the residents, the (D) party is claiming "a vast majority" of the city is dissatisfied with the changes. :rolleyes:
 
I'd vote Liberterian (pardon spelling, its late) but I dont think they're even on the ballot in my state. I can at least agree with their policy.
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See, and I've found the few Libertarian candidates I've looked into fall somewhere between "slightly more fiscally conservative than I'd like" to "stark raving mad."

Generally leaning toward the latter.

So you understand where I'm talking about, Ron Paul (who I think of as a Libertarian despite his current party affiliation) would probably be at the very edge of the former.

The (D)'s may run socialists, and the (R)'s may run neocons, but the (L)'s far too often run absolute whackjobs.

I truly believe the Democrats could increase their support significantly if they would reverse their position on gun-control. The vast majority of single issue voters regarding guns are pro-gun.
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You know, I'd assume this as well. I find it odd, and sometimes I think that either A) the party leadership actually just does feel that strongly about gun control or B) they're just determined to pick the polar opposite of the Republicans on as many issues as possible. Because based on people I've talked to over the years, it seems like the main reason the Republicans enjoy the firm majority they do, particularly on the flyover states, is because of guns. The south is a different story (seems like guns alone aren't what's holding them back down there), but considering how close elections are nowadays picking up a few flyover states or maybe even one of the more gun-friendly battleground states (like Ohio, I guess) would give them a much better shot at winning presidential elections.

I am hopeful that many of the rank and file Democrats are beginning to realize that supporting gun restriction loses a candidate far more votes than it gains. While I realize there is plenty of support for more gun laws, far fewer anti-gunners are single issue voters compared to those who adamantly support the RKBA.
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Like I said, both my gut and my experience tell me this as well. And especially if the Republicans maintain their pro-gun stance, I'd say that anti-gun Democrats would vote Democratic anyway. I really don't get the impression that (at least at the moment) gun control is the omega hot-button issue right now among Democrats; many might be for it, but it's not the kind of thing where a candidate's stance on it will discourage turnout.

Then again, I'd also suspect that the Democratic party (or individual presidential campaigns) would be collecting poll data regarding this...I mean, they pay people whose job it is to figure out how to win elections. Pay them well, even. You'd think if this were the case and if I can spot it while sitting here in my pajamas listening to Jane's Addiction then some guy crunching poll numbers would know it as well.

So heck, I don't know. Like I said, I think it maybe it comes down to A or B from above.


Also, I was largely kidding about the whole socialist/neocon thing up above...just trying to find a couple derisive terms to lead into "whackjobs."

I wasn't kidding about "whackjobs," though. They aren't all whackjobs, but the ones that are.....*slow whistle*
 
Hell we have a pro-gun, pro-life, pro-border, small-government Republican named Ron Paul and look at how "real" conservatives(ok neocons) in the party treat him.
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His crapidiferous crap about running the entire Federal Government off of customs duties is the crap that prevents many from taking him seriously.

Pure Libertarian (crap) Party crap. Just crap crap crap and more crap.
 
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Republican message: You can, America is the land of opportunity, everyone has the potential to succeed. Your decisions determine your future. You deserve the benefits of your success. America wins and will always win. America is the greatest country in the world.

Democrat message: Your a victim, America has stacked the deck against you, the powerful are keeping you down, leave your future to US. We will collect what should be yours from those that have unfairly cheated you. American needs to lose and learn a lesson. America is an unjust oppressor and needs International guidance.
 
His crapidiferous crap about running the entire Federal Government off of customs duties is the crap that prevents many from taking him seriously.

Pure Libertarian (crap) Party crap. Just crap crap crap and more crap.
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This is the current party right here folks

The GOP will get its clock cleaned if they dont get back to their principles
 
Though ManedWolf manages to quite happily ignore that people are the sum of their experiences. He's happy to throw the criminal in jail and ignore the social factors that are causing four more criminals to grow up to join him in twenty years.
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Incorrect. It's still their choice at that moment.

No unseen hand is making the criminal rob a store or pull a trigger. That's their mind, their free will at that moment in time.

And they must deal with the consequences of their actions.
 
XDfan, If you look more carefully you will see that he is referring to Libertarian / RP policy not any GOP principle.

Unless you are trying to make the tremendous stretch that the use of the word 'crap' is somehow a proprietary to Republicans. :p

Such a stretch would however reflect the common tactic of misrepresentation. What side are you a proponent of again?
 
I appreciate the replies that were not total vitriolic hyperbole.

I am making no attempt to bait anyone. Basically I am just old enough to have seen the incredibly fast transition of South Carolina from a staunch Democratic State to a Republican State. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party basically abandoned a vital constituency by trying to appeal to too many disparate groups.

As an example, both of my Grandfathers were staunch Democrats even though they could not have been more different. One was a liberal college professor with a Ph.D. and the other was a Citadel graduate who served in the military (he was a Colonel in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and took part in the D-Day invasion).

I suppose my point is that there are certain realities about the Republican Party that will always prevent me from fully embracing their ideals. While the Democratic Party took a wrong turn, I still believe the Party can be put back on the right path. Until then, I view the Republicans only as the lesser of two evils.

In a perfect world, the moderates of both parties would unite and return the country to what many believe the Republicans represent, but in reality don't. Imagine a political party that does not cater to the richest 1% nor pander to the moral majority and likewise rejects socialist ideas and the multitude of fringe special interest groups.
 
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