Report Bolsters Calls for Gun-a-Month Limit

Waitone

New member
Has anyone seen this report.

http://www.apbnews.com/NEWSCENTER/B...ntraces1201_01.html?s=syn.daily_guntraces1201

Dec. 1, 2000

By James Gordon Meek

WASHINGTON (APBnews.com) -- Some gun policy experts are calling for states to give new consideration to one-gun-per-month laws in the wake of a government report showing almost a quarter of all guns used in the commission of a crime recovered in 1999 were originally part of multiple purchases.

The federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' annual report on gun traces released Thursday also shows that 11 percent of all guns recovered were legally bought by offenders from federally licensed firearms dealers.

That 22 percent of crime guns last year stemmed from legal multiple gun purchases is a "remarkable finding," said Jon Vernick, associate director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

"It suggests the potential value of one-gun-per-month laws," he said.

Four states have limits

Currently, four states -- Maryland, California, South Carolina and Virginia -- have laws that limit gun purchases to one per month.

The Virginia version of the law, for example, was passed almost a decade ago after the state became notorious for "bulk" gun buys by traffickers who funneled firearms north, where gun laws tend to be more strict.

But National Rifle Association spokeswoman Kelley Whitley said new laws that limit the number of guns sold to an individual aren't necessarily the correct response to the ATF findings.

"I don't know if there's ever been any proof in any of these states that one-gun-per-month laws have had any effect on crime," Whitley said.

'Straw' purchases

The majority of crime guns traced by authorities are not stolen but are bought either at gun shows or from illegal gun traffickers who use "straw" buyers to purchase handguns, said ATF spokesman Special Agent Bill Kinsella. He referred to the practice by traffickers of using someone without a criminal record who can pass a federal background check to purchase guns in bulk, which are then sold illegally.

"Before the first report, we in law enforcement believed that most [crime guns] were stolen and there was no point in tracing them," he said.

Cheap guns favored by youths

The report is included in the third Youth Gun Crime Interdiction Initiative and includes data on 64,000 crime guns from 38 U.S. cities that were traced by the ATF in 1999.

The agency said 43 percent of those guns were in the possession of youths under 25, and 9 percent of those were taken from juveniles under 17.

The most commonly recovered gun makes among all offenders were cheap handguns manufactured by Bryco Arms, Lorcin Engineering and Ruger.

Half were semiautomatic pistols, and 50 percent of the total also were newer firearms made after 1993, according to the ATF report.

Of the guns traced, 15 percent were recovered within one year of the first retail purchase; 32 percent were recovered within three years.

The ATF said the Bryco Arms and Ruger handguns had the shortest time from purchase to crime rate, which was less than three years. For juveniles, the median time from purchase to commission in a crime in nine cities was 1.6 years for both the Bryco and Lorcin Engineering 9 mm handguns.

Guns flow north

Also mapped out in the report were two South-to-North gun trafficking routes that the ATF said come from the southeastern United States and extend to Memphis, Tenn.; St. Louis, and Chicago in one direction and Washington, Baltimore, Philadelphia and New York City in the other.

But the ATF also reported that 62 percent of the traced guns never left the states where they were originally purchased.
 
One gun a month should not be a limit.
It should be considered a goal.
I'm trying my best to keep up, but with ammunition and accessories and all....
Sometimes it's difficult. :)
 
The Slippery Slope again

Hit some of those Straw Purchasers with heavy fines and stiff jail sentences, advertise that fact widely and see how fast that avenue dries up.

I have yet to see how many of these known Straw Purchasers were tracked down and punished.

This is another one of those incremental laws that some gun owners will get sucked into agreeing with. Most gun owners are lucky to buy one or two per year, especially at current prices. I went a couple of years before buying another gun, but when I did I bought two hard-to-find ones in one day.

If they can start telling you how many guns you can buy, they'll soon be telling you how many you can have.


Here's the BATF report: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/ycgii/1999/index.htm

Meek can be reached at: james.meek@apbnews.com
 
Interesting article, thanks, but it does leave out a few of the finer points. Virginia's law is one handgun a month, and you can apply for an exception for, say, a collection or matched set. Otherwise, it is buy them now and take delivery once a month. I don't think our law applies to the private sale of handguns either. John
 
What a crock...

The report comes out and flatly states that 89% of "crime guns" were not in the posession of their original purchasers. (This leaves 11% in the gun cabinets of those convicted of tax code, BATF or EPA regulation violations or other white-collar crimes. Yes, Virginia, those Purdeys in Millken's shack in the Hamptons are "crime guns", too.)

It then spends a paragraph hand-wringing over how those guns made it into the hands of the criminal; straw purchases! illicit transfers! traded for drugs! bartered to aliens! before coming out and acknowledging that they might possibly have been, you know, stolen. Seeing as how criminals sometimes, like, do that, and all...

Ah, well, whatinhell does the BATF know about firearms, anyway... :barf:
 
Nice to see Bill Ruger included with the 'junk gun' manufacturers. Byrco, Lorcin, and Ruger, good company to be in.
 
New Study Supports Requiring Multiple Gun Purchases Per Month

Since 75% of felony guns were not originally purchased as part of a multiple gun purchase, LOGICALLY...to REDUCE CRIME.. a new law should require that all guns be a multiple purchase arrangement.
 
They passed one handgun per lifetime in south africa and even though it just passed I seriously doubt it will reduce crime.Brazil had a law of one handgun a year a brazil has a homicide rate of 19 per 100,000 people compared to 6 in the u.s.
 
The report comes out and flatly states that 89% of "crime guns" were not in the posession of their original purchasers. (This leaves 11% in the gun cabinets of those convicted of tax code, BATF or EPA regulation violations or other white-collar crimes. Yes, Virginia, those Purdeys in Millken's shack in the Hamptons are "crime guns", too.)

You know, that kind of attitude really annoys me. Do you really believe that everyone who committs crimes with guns had a previous criminal record (and therefore could not legally purchase a gun)? Or that the only kind of crimes owners of legally purchased guns committ are white-collar? Let me put this another way--before the individual committs a crime, he/she is not a criminal; after the individual commits a crime, he/she is a criminal. There's no magic radar at the gun shop to tell if a person will someday committ a crime using a gun. Do me a favor and go look up the UCR stats on the percentage of women killed by a lover (ie, someone who likely did not have a previous criminal record) then stop making comments about how "criminals" are somehow completely separate from the rest of society and a completely static group.
 
Sorry, bud. I shall not have my rights restricted due to the illegal actions of the few.

"Do you really believe that everyone who committs crimes with guns had a previous criminal record (and therefore could not legally purchase a gun)?"

Thanks for the hyperbole in your question. 75% of murders are committed by adult felons with an average of 6 years of criminal history. They kill other felons 71% of the time. The remaining 25% is mostly made up of longterm juvenile offenders.

Virginia was falsely tagged as supplying guns to New York. Some 650 guns traced there were from one heist of a Virginia police property room. As well, during the time when Virginia was said to be supplying all the guns via straw purchasers, the BATF was encouraging dealers to follow through with straw purchases as part of a sting. Those guns are all included in those numbers.

Rick
 
Hey! Whoa! Sorry!

folkbabe,
Please take into account the Smartass Factor and the Hyperbole Quotient of my posts, both of which tend to be high. I'll happily admit to pulling reductio ad absurdum out of my conversational toolbox every chance I get, as it's usually good for a few chuckles while getting my point across. ;)

Certainly there are a percentage of "First Time Criminals" rolled up in this statistic; a number probably simultaneously higher than I'd likely guess and lower than you would. I will clarify the notion I was driving at, however...

If there's one thing that really grinds me to a halt, it's blatant misuse of statistics to sell a viewpoint. I find this particularly loathesome when it's being used by the agenda-driven hive-dwellers at either end of the political spectrum to justify the Dictatorship of The Common Good that they wish to corral me into. We have the NeoPuritan Crypto-Fascists on one side waving the bloody shirt of the rarest of abortion procedures and alleging that "they're all like that!" or justifying further erosion of the Bill of Rights in the name of a continued 'war' against substances that were legal for the majority of this country's history without causing noticeable harm to the fabric of the Republic. From the other side of the spectrum, the well-meaning idealists of the Dictatorship of Nice, we have (to use just two particularly egregious firearms-related examples) the oft-harped statistic of how many "children" are killed by firearms annually and the above ATF study of "Crime Guns". If we pull the curtain aside to examine the little man working the levers, however, both these numbers are highly specious. "Children", depending on the source being quoted, includes everyone up to the age of either 18 or 21, and includes them no matter how they fell victim to a bullet. Of course, when Oprah or Paul Newman quotes the numbers imploringly into a camera, your average tapioca-headed sofa spud can be forgiven for assuming that they were all three-year-olds who found daddy's gun. The "Crime Guns" figure includes every gun seized during an arrest that is reported to the BATF. It doesn't matter whether the gun had anything to do with the crime or not; it's now been reported to the bureau and dutifully logged as a 'crime gun'.

Of all the friends I've had who had abusive boyfriends, only one or two (of the boyfriends, that is ;) ) had no criminal record whatsoever. The rest usually had minor litanies of DUI, posession, theft, assault, etc. Studies have repeatedly shown that it is a rare murderer who is first introduced to the police over a dead body. The vast majority have several fairly serious misdemeanors, and almost three-quarters of first-time murderers have at least one felony under their belt (and these studies assume that there a no skeletons lurking in sealed juvenile record closets, either...)
 
Okay Tamara, I just get annoyed at what I perhaps misinterpret as an attempt to separate society into neat "good guy bad guy" boxes and say that nobody moves from one catagory to another. Plus minorities and people of lower incomes are a lot more likely to be targetted for enforcement of drug laws (etc) than white wealthy suburbanites, and therefore are much more likely to have criminal records. When I hear people try to define those who commit murder as those who have previously been convicted of a crime my "What about all the suburban jerks who don't get arrested for their abuse of drugs and alcohol and kill their girlfriend" alert goes up. :) I apologize for going off on you.

RickD, could you please provide me with a source for your stats? In cases where the perpetrator was identified, 30.7% of the perps were family members or lovers of the victim. On the other stat, I don't really see your point in stating that 71% of victims had felony records. I was addressing a very specific point where I felt there was a harmful exageration, not commenting on one-a-month laws. (FWIW, I think they only cover handguns in Maryland as well. At least, I know of people purchasing multiple firearms at a time and being able to take them right away. I think they were bought in Maryland, but maybe they went to Virginia or something.)
 
Let's put a finer point on this ...

Do me a favor and go look up the UCR stats on the percentage of women killed by a lover (ie, someone who likely did not have a previous criminal record) then stop making comments about how "criminals" are somehow completely separate from the rest of society and a completely static group.
folkbabe

folkbabe, I agree with you, and I think everyone else here will as well ... obviously we don't know who will and who will not commit a crime today. Most crimes are committed by repeat offenders from what I've seen. But, certainly there are a certain number of crimes committed by people who have never before been in trouble with the law.

But, so what? If you want to use that point to justify restrictions on firearms purchases, how does that help those women? Kopel, Lott and others have done studies which show that waiting periods, for example, can actually be statistically associated with increases in rape and murder.

If a woman is in an abusive relationship with a man, it is very likely that that man is physically stronger than she is. Men can injure and kill women with their bare hands, 2-by-4's, baseball bats, etc. If the woman is attacked by such a brute, what do you suggest? You've been around here long enough to see plenty of true stories where women have defended themselves with firearms. What is your solution? One-gun-a-month pacifiers? How about, instead, firearms training, counseling and support for women so they can defend themselves? Doesn't that make more sense than this hopeless and pitiful desire to somehow prevent a brute from finding a weapon somewhere in the country ... out of the 200 million+ firearms, and who knows how many knives, baseball bats and other makeshift weapons?

IMHO, the perspective of helping women to defend themselves, and hopefully, exit abusive relationships does nothing to encourage violence ... it helps prevent violence. Anyone who believes that firearms training encourage violence has never had a quality firearms course. Guns save lives - think that statement over carefully, because, while shocking to most people ... it is absolutely true.

Lord, the illogic in restricting a woman's right to self defense just curdles my blood.

Regards from AZ
 
I don't think folkbabe is trying to use his/her argument (of: not being able to know who the criminal is) to promote the "one-gun-a-month" plan.

-------

One gun a month laws:

1. Don't lower crime. As per the states mentioned in the report.
2. Are unconstitutional.
3. Are a clear and evident step towards confiscation.

-------

I also like Oatka's position with attacking the real source. The straw men. Nail the fence and the avenue will die.

Regards,
MP
 
Another point on "one-gun-a-month" laws - by law FFLs must file ATF form 3310.5 to report multiple sales of a handgun to one person within a five day period (i.e. you buy more than one handgun in five days and the ATF gets immediate notice of it).

If "multiple purchases" are such a significant source of crime guns then maybe the ATF should actually DO something with that 3310.5 and follow-up on some of those purchases.
 
A more reasonable suggestion is to tag multiple sales of the same gun or same caliber. No one is buying 25 Davises at one time for themselves. Make the limit 5 guns a month of different caliber.

As usual, there is a reasonable middle ground but the slippery slope fears (which are real) prevent acceptance of this.

Also, the folks worried about straw man purchases could come up with a middle ground proposal but they won't as they really want to get all guns banned.

Since studies show that a small number of FFLs do this crap, there should be a way to get them without an arbitrary limit for all.
 
Damn it Gary, you beat me to it.

Since 75% of felony guns were not originally purchased as part of a multiple gun purchase, LOGICALLY...to REDUCE CRIME.. a new law should require that all guns be a multiple purchase arrangement.
 
Folkbabe, this is just my experience, but I've never had a case where where an abusive boyfriend killed his ladyfriend with a gun. Morbidly interesting as it may be, I've also not had an abuser try to kill a woman with a knife. They all seem to favour impact weapons: fists, clubs, and one time an axe.

The firearm and knife use, again in my experience, is generally by the abused person against the abuser, in self-defense usually.

LawDog
 
The data favors LawDog. Men do not need guns to exert control over women. An extra fifty pounds does quite nicely.

For sourcing my stats, among others, go buy the book "The Great American Gun Debate" By Prof. Gary Kleck and Don B. Kates.

Rick
 
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