Remington Rand 45 question
- Thread starter tsillik
- Start date
Here is the place to start your research: http://coolgunsite.com/
1911A1 Correctness
You should look to see that all the parts are there.
The original finish would have been parkerized, with brown plastic checkered grip panels.
I assume by "correct" you mean original?? Because there are two "levels" or "conditions" of correct for the gun.
As originally issued:
Since its a WWII era gun, then the original WWII Parkerizing and pattern parts, with the same approximate degree of finish wear all over.
Service condition correct:
The gun is physically complete and has no commercial parts. Specific hammer, safety, grip, and other parts can be ANYTHING in the GI repair system up to the point the pistol left government ownership.
Since there are no matching numbers on the parts (such as found in German guns), there is no way to positively determine if any part is original to the gun.
Period. All one can be certain of is if the part is period correct, or not.
Since about 1926 (and the introduction of the 1911A1) military SOP has been that any needed repairs would be done with existing on hand parts, which, means 1911A1 pattern parts. An original 1911 pistol, will, if it needed repair, at any time up through the 1980s) be repaired with 1911A1 parts.
The only "wrong" parts for "service correct condition" would be blued commercial ones.
I once had a 1943 Remington Rand, gun was in very good condition, and appeared completely original, except the barrel was marked .45ACP.
Which meant that the barrel was a commercial replacement part. GI barrels were unmarked. (GI National Match barrels had "NM" marked on them, standard barrels had no markings)
Good Luck!
You should look to see that all the parts are there.
The original finish would have been parkerized, with brown plastic checkered grip panels.
I assume by "correct" you mean original?? Because there are two "levels" or "conditions" of correct for the gun.
As originally issued:
Since its a WWII era gun, then the original WWII Parkerizing and pattern parts, with the same approximate degree of finish wear all over.
Service condition correct:
The gun is physically complete and has no commercial parts. Specific hammer, safety, grip, and other parts can be ANYTHING in the GI repair system up to the point the pistol left government ownership.
Since there are no matching numbers on the parts (such as found in German guns), there is no way to positively determine if any part is original to the gun.
Period. All one can be certain of is if the part is period correct, or not.
Since about 1926 (and the introduction of the 1911A1) military SOP has been that any needed repairs would be done with existing on hand parts, which, means 1911A1 pattern parts. An original 1911 pistol, will, if it needed repair, at any time up through the 1980s) be repaired with 1911A1 parts.
The only "wrong" parts for "service correct condition" would be blued commercial ones.
I once had a 1943 Remington Rand, gun was in very good condition, and appeared completely original, except the barrel was marked .45ACP.
Which meant that the barrel was a commercial replacement part. GI barrels were unmarked. (GI National Match barrels had "NM" marked on them, standard barrels had no markings)
Good Luck!
Guns that stayed with Uncle Sam past the end of WWII might be more original, or less original than those that were "brought home" (stolen) by G.I.s.
I have a Colt M1911 that my dad bought from a U.S. arsenal in the early '60s, and it still had its original blue finish, but had WWII-era grip safety, slide stop and plastic stocks.
It's interesting that a Colt M1911A1 made during the period when both slides and frames were serial numbered will be downgraded for being mismatched, while guns made by Remington Rand, Ithaca, et al., that didn't have serialed slides, will be assumed to be matching if the finish shows similar wear top and bottom.
I have a Colt M1911 that my dad bought from a U.S. arsenal in the early '60s, and it still had its original blue finish, but had WWII-era grip safety, slide stop and plastic stocks.
It's interesting that a Colt M1911A1 made during the period when both slides and frames were serial numbered will be downgraded for being mismatched, while guns made by Remington Rand, Ithaca, et al., that didn't have serialed slides, will be assumed to be matching if the finish shows similar wear top and bottom.
I agree with the other posters that you need to research.
These guns went thru many changes and it is rare to find one all original.
I inherited one from a now deceased cousin that was a WWII veteran.
It has Remington Rand on the slide, but the serial number on the frame indicates it is made by Ithaca. The barrel is the standard issue High Standard. HS made approximately 1.3 million barrels from what I can gather.
Check the pistol out thoroughly before purchase to insure that you are paying an appropriate price.
My serial number research indicates the frame was of 1942 vintage. Not sure of the slide.
These guns went thru many changes and it is rare to find one all original.
I inherited one from a now deceased cousin that was a WWII veteran.
It has Remington Rand on the slide, but the serial number on the frame indicates it is made by Ithaca. The barrel is the standard issue High Standard. HS made approximately 1.3 million barrels from what I can gather.
Check the pistol out thoroughly before purchase to insure that you are paying an appropriate price.
My serial number research indicates the frame was of 1942 vintage. Not sure of the slide.
I found the auction results of this Colt M1911 interesting: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/645236452
I have pretty much the same pistol other than the finish condition on mine is significantly better. I also know all the components of mine are original to the period including the intertwined or as some describe it the combined H P barrel.
Another good reference source is Charles W. Clawson's book "Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1". Copies of this book are somewhat difficult to find therefore pricy.
I have pretty much the same pistol other than the finish condition on mine is significantly better. I also know all the components of mine are original to the period including the intertwined or as some describe it the combined H P barrel.
Another good reference source is Charles W. Clawson's book "Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1". Copies of this book are somewhat difficult to find therefore pricy.
My R.R. is actually a Colt Frame with a RR Slide.
Barrel says 45 Auto wit ha serial number. It is also S&W on the link lug.
Grips are wood aftermarket and the gun was definitely refurbed in the past.
Warbaby yes... fully OG...No. But outside of the grips you would be hard pressed to tell what is or isn't OG.
Barrel says 45 Auto wit ha serial number. It is also S&W on the link lug.
Grips are wood aftermarket and the gun was definitely refurbed in the past.
Warbaby yes... fully OG...No. But outside of the grips you would be hard pressed to tell what is or isn't OG.
http://coolgunsite.com/pistols/Frame%20and%20Slide%20Markings.htm
Not sure how correct this info is, but i am to lazy to go out to the shop and look it up.
http://coolgunsite.com/pistols/1911infopage.htm
Not sure how correct this info is, but i am to lazy to go out to the shop and look it up.
http://coolgunsite.com/pistols/1911infopage.htm
Mine is a 1943 Remington Rand. The barrel is marked 45 auto, with a contract number and a S&W roll stamp on the lug.
I read somewhere (wish i could remember where) that S&W won a contract for 25,000 replacement barrels for arsenal rebuilds, in the 60's maybe? The WWII 1911 war horses still had a lot of life left in em with the new barrels. Served nicely for a couple more decades until the Beretta took over.
After all these years there are endless combinations of parts on them, research well and you will have fun finding yours. I did search and buy a HS barrel so i could make it "correct" if i wanted to, but honestly, i don't mind the arsenal rebuild. As others have said, it is still in military condition, as rebuilt and reissued.
This old Remington Rand could still serve, if called upon..
I read somewhere (wish i could remember where) that S&W won a contract for 25,000 replacement barrels for arsenal rebuilds, in the 60's maybe? The WWII 1911 war horses still had a lot of life left in em with the new barrels. Served nicely for a couple more decades until the Beretta took over.
After all these years there are endless combinations of parts on them, research well and you will have fun finding yours. I did search and buy a HS barrel so i could make it "correct" if i wanted to, but honestly, i don't mind the arsenal rebuild. As others have said, it is still in military condition, as rebuilt and reissued.
This old Remington Rand could still serve, if called upon..