Remington 7600 in .257 Roberts HELP/QUESTION

J

JamesRJr

New member
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Hey all.

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Short version
Will the Hornady 117 gr. .257 Roberts +P round physically fit in a Remington 7600 magazine box, and function properly in the rifle?
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Long dang version :eek:

I've been wanting a rifle in .257 Roberts for a long time.

Seein's how it's gotten to the serious stage, I'm starting to examine some of the particulars.

As I understand it, Ned Roberts' cartridge was treated quite shabbily by Remington, in the early years in particular.

They underloaded it, to where it really wasn't much more than a .250 Savage (250-3000, whatever).

And they built their .257 rifles with short box magazines, to where the bullet had to be set deep in the case to even FIT in the magazine. And then the bullet had a big jump to the rifling. The whole thing was just FUBAR as far a I can tell.

So, as I'm trying to think my way down this road I'm heading on,
I would really like... well, let's just say "more instead of less" performance out of the .257 I get.

And in that regard, this Hornady 117 gr. .257 Roberts +P round looks like the cat's meow to me (or maybe "the dog's bark" would be more applicable!).

But that 117 gr. bullet would not have come even close to fitting in the .257 Roberts rifles of yesteryear.

What about today?

In particular, there's this Remington 7600 in .257 Roberts I'm looking at.
Made in... 1992 I think maybe.

Does anybody know if between 1934 and... sometime anyway,
the rifle manufacturers gave that cartridge some "room to grow," room to breathe?

Specifically will that 117 gr. Hornady round "fit" in a Remington 7600 magazine, and otherwise function nicely?

Thanks,

James

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James,

Sorry, your only the second person that i've ever heard of that combined the Rem 7600 and the 257 Roberts.
Most rifles made for that chambering are bolt guns.

As far as the long throat you mention, the 7600 should probablt have a long throat on it due to the nature of how the bolt locks up. It's a measure to help keep pressures down for pump, lever and auto loaders.

I also can't speak for the 117gr. Hornady bullet.
I'm shooting the 90gr BlitzKing, 100,115gr Ballistic Tip, 115gr. Berger VLD Hunting and the 120gr. Sierra HPBT GameKing. Just depends what i'm hunting.

Best of luck to you.

Oh have you thought about the Kimber Hunter?

Std7mag
 
Rem could of done things lot different for 257 Roberts and 6Rem both have
same case length. I don't think +P was for the auto/pump.


I would think 257 Robert bolt action be better than 7600.
 
Do you think somebody at Hornady might tell you the OAL if you called them up?

SAAMI maximum OAL for the .257 is 2.78" and surely the Remington will handle that.
 
std7mag -

I hear you about the bolt guns.

And actually... I’m heading towards getting this excellent rifle builder and friend to get me a Shilen or Broughton barrel, or whatever he thinks, and make me up a nice .257 Roberts precision rifle.

But in the meantime... it’s just that this 7600 in .257 Bob just walked right in front of me, locally here. And... it’s in the box, with all its papers and stuff. It’s been shot, but hardly. And... I just leapt. It was so cool. I don’t know. Anything like that ever happen to anybody?

James

P.S. Your sig. put me in mind of one of my favorite John Wayne quotes, from The Shootist:

“I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”

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Jim Watson

Thanks for the suggestion, sure, yes, I called Hornady.
Said the max OAL for that 117 gr. round of theirs is 2.775 (SAAMI 2.78)
So... it looks like that question’s answered.

But now that you bring up SAAMI... and re-reading old roper’s comment...

- - - - - \/ - - - - -

I got to thinking about the chamber pressure :eek:

Now... I don’t know how to KNOW for sure.

But I tried to do some Sherlock Holmes deductive reasoning... hmmm...

The Remington 7600 was chambered in a slew of different calibers.

I may be overlooking a few, but below I have listed
- 8 that I am sure of,
- along with the Hornady +P round for comparison.
- each accompanied by their SAAMI chamber pressure spec.

(my dividing lines are just to help my eye look at them)
(the parenthetical figures are an “alternate” SAAMI way of measuring)

.270 Winchester-----52,000-----(65,000)
.308------------------52,000-----(62,000)
.35 Whelen---------- 52,000-----(62,000)
6mm Remington-----52,000-----(65,000)
.243 Winchester-----52,000-----(60,000)
- - - - - - - - -
.280 Remington------50,000-----(60,000)
.30-06----------------50,000-----(60,000)
257 Roberts----------45,000-----(54,000)
- - - - - - - - -
257 Roberts +P------50,000-----(58,000)

Hmmm...

So I’m thinking
- if the “strength” of the 7600 action
- and the mechanics of the pump, the bolt, the lock up, etc.
stayed the same from caliber to caliber,
i.e., they manufactured but one basic rifle

then...

If the 7600 handled the .270 Win. and the .308, and the .35 Whelen, etc.
all with higher SAAMI chamber pressures than the .257 Roberts +P

then shouldn’t the +P .257 Roberts be FINE in the 7600?

Talk to me guys.

I’m 70 years old, and been shooting about 65 of those years.

But mostly just natural shooting with whatever I could lay my hands on.

I’m pretty new to a lot of precision rifle stuff and all this “ figgerin’ ”

Much obliged,

James

_
 
something to think about is that the 7600 magazine would have to fit all 30-06 rounds available at the time, I believe... So, you should be able to extrapolate from that whether you can load an estra long round into the magazine. Yes, the throat was probably cut a little deeper with extra free bore, without the camming leverage of a bolt, the 74 and 76 series were not the absolutely reliable lockup that one would expect. My father's 74 failed to go completely into battery once. didn't fire, and he just chambered another round. Was there grit in the chamber? I don't know, and don't want to argue about it.

The design allows a lot of leverage in that last bit of lockup, it ordinarily shouldn't be a problem.

Those rifles were not by any means weak. They were designed to use full power rounds out of the 06 class.

Good luck getting it all figured out, I'd suggest putting this information together and sending it by letter or email to hornady. They should be able to answer.
 
something to think about is that the 7600 magazine would have to fit all 30-06 rounds available at the time, I believe... So, you should be able to extrapolate from that whether you can load an estra long round into the magazine.
Click to expand...
The problem with that idea is that Rem made the 7600 in at least 2 different magazine lengths. It would appear that they used a short magazine for the .257 Bob.
 
I guess it should depend on weather you like pump action rifle's. But even in bolt action Remington's you could well have a problem with mag length. The Robert's case and the Remington 6mm case share that short magazine length or did some years ago. I a 6mm I had, there was a jump to the lands no matter what bullet I used. I like Remington rifle's but would be very careful about which cartridge I'd get it in. Do you reload? Might think about a Super 250. 25 cal on a 308 case.
 
As you have tabulated, the .257 Roberts whether Wimpy Original or Plus P will not unduly stress a 7600.

The Hornady ammo, since it makes SAAMI OAL should do just fine.
 
"...fit in a Remington 7600..." +P has nothing to do with the cartridge dimensions. It's about pressure.
SAAMI spec for the .257 Roberts +P is 58,000 PSI(54,000 PSI for the regular Roberts.). There's no such thing as an "alternate" SAAMI way of measuring. There is CIP, which is the European standards though. However, there is no CIP standard for .256 Roberts +P.
SAAMI spec cartridge dimensions, OAL included are the same. MAX is 2.780". .308 Win Max OAL is 2.810". .308 uses a short action. The SAAMI Max Avg. pressure for .308 Win is 62,000 PSI. A .257 Roberts +P isn't going to bother a 7600.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/saami_pressures.htm
 
"Rem could of done things lot different for 257 Roberts and 6Rem both have
same case length. I don't think +P was for the auto/pump."

Well the 7x57 was the daddy for the 6MM Rem. and .257 Bob so case length is pretty much the same. I don't have anything in the .257 by Remington but my Ruger #1B is probably no holds barred regarding cartridge length. My Win. M70 though has a 30-06 length action and magazine box but they put a silly block in the magazine a different length bolt stop and shortened follower to fit. :mad: I guess it would all depend on which magazine Remington used for the .257. A 30-06 length would be perfect but a .308 length may restrict bullet choice. If you have a 30-06 length cartridge and the magazine will take it without problem then you should be just fine. If it's the shorter version I don't know what to tell you.
Paul B.
 
The 7600 is a 30/06 length action. Magazines have fillers to shorten for the "short action" cartridges but are the same external dimensions. So, the magazine isn't the limiting factor in cartridge OAL.
 
Mobuck, your statement would seem to imply that you could take a "full length caliber" magazine (without any filler) and adapt it to feed .257 Bob and then have a magazine long enough to handle longer bullets.
 
OP’s SUMMARY

As to the length of the longer 117 gr. +P bullet fitting into the 7600 magazine:

Mobuck essentially nailed it.

I’ve got me a .257 Roberts magazine here now, and the i.d. measures 3.03.
Just a smidge longer than the 2.78 SAAMI O.A.L. for the .257 Roberts/+P cartridge.

But the magazine does indeed have some metal blocks/pads/whatever interiorly fore and aft, to shorten it up to a good length for the .257 Roberts cartridge.
That’s what the above/3.03 measurement is.

If I catch my calipers j-u-s-t on the top edge of the internal wall of the magazine box itself (avoiding the “pads”) it measures 3.36.

So would the “necked” magazine, at 3.36 i.d., take the .30-06 and the .35 Whelen? Their SAAMI max. O.A.L. is 3.34. That’s fitting those two rounds in there pretty close. But if they fit they fit? Maybe?

Regardless, as to my question... I didn't know that the SAAMI spec. for the OAL of the .257 Roberts and .257 Roberts +P are the same. I do now. So we're obviously good to go there. √


As to the pressure of the .257 Roberts +P ?

Once I assembled a little data and looked at it, it all seems good to me.

If the 7600 is good to go with the .270, .308, .30-06, .35 Whelen, 6mm Remington, and .243, all with higher SAAMI chamber pressures than the .257 Roberts +P...
then it sure seems to me that the 7600 is good to go with the .257+P. √

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I do thank y'all for kicking all this around with me. Opining.

It took some thinking, looking up and headscratching.
But there’s boxes I just always feel like I need to check off, as opposed to “let’s shoot it and see what happens.”

Much obliged,

James

P.S.
‎www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/Z299-4_ANSI-SAAMI_CFR.pdf
“Two principal methods of measuring centerfire rifle pressures are recognized: the copper crusher method (CUP) and the piezoelectric transducer method (PSI). One or the other may be used or they may be used simultaneously.”

P.P.S. Jim Watson - I just read back over the thread. In your last post, in two short sentences, you said pretty much what needed to be said. Thanks.

_
 
The Hornady 117 +P fits and shoots just very accurately in a short action Remington 722 bolt gun if that helps.
 
"Mobuck, your statement would seem to imply that you could take a "full length caliber" magazine (without any filler) and adapt it to feed .257 Bob and then have a magazine long enough to handle longer bullets."
Quite possibly no adapting required.
 
I assume that you intend to shoot the 7600 offhand or positions, not from the bench. I used to do gunsmithing back in the day, and sighted-in lots of different types of rifles. To sight-in pump rifles, I usually held the forend in my left hand, with the hand resting on the sandbag. That tended to minimize movement on the front rest when the rifle is fired.

The 7600s tend to be quite accurate, but I can't get used to the rattling forend and don't normally need more than one shot at a deer, so only have bolt-action hunting rifles.

A friend bought a 7600 in .308, years ago and it's been a great rifle for him, but he had pump shotguns and was used to the system. I don't like pumps and can work a bolt pretty fast, but rarely need more than one shot at anything.
 
"The Remington 7600 was chambered in a slew of different calibers.

I may be overlooking a few, but below I have listed
- 8 that I am sure of,
- along with the Hornady +P round for comparison.
- each accompanied by their SAAMI chamber pressure spec.

(my dividing lines are just to help my eye look at them)
(the parenthetical figures are an “alternate” SAAMI way of measuring)

.270 Winchester-----52,000-----(65,000)
.308------------------52,000-----(62,000)
.35 Whelen---------- 52,000-----(62,000)
6mm Remington-----52,000-----(65,000)
.243 Winchester-----52,000-----(60,000)
- - - - - - - - -
.280 Remington------50,000-----(60,000)
.30-06----------------50,000-----(60,000)
257 Roberts----------45,000-----(54,000)
- - - - - - - - -
257 Roberts +P------50,000-----(58,000)

Hmmm..."

IIRC, those pressure figures are for M.A.P. (Maximum Allowable Pressure) which means commercial ammo is loaded to no exceed those figures.

A few years back I ran a velocity test to find out two things. How the .308 Win. and 30-06 with a 180 gr. bullet compared in factory ammo? The test rifles were a Winchester M70 22" in .308 and Remington M700 22", custom Mauser 24" and Ruger #1B with 26" barrel. Ammo for all rifles was Winchester 180 gr. Power point.

To keep this simple:
.308 Win.------------2600 FPS

30-06---------2590 FPS/22"----2635 FPS 24"------2690 FPS 26".
Somehow I don't think that 06 ammo was even close to the 50KPSI MAP. :eek:
I do believe that some of the latest cartridges are loaded closer to the MAP.

On the question of the blocked magazine,I think just a simple substitution of a .270 or 30-06 mag. would solve that problem, no alterations needed.
Paul B.
 
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