remington 700 accuracy issues, help please!!!

D

DelawareDave

Inactive
So I have a remington 700, heavy taper 26" barrel in .308. I have had the rifle for about 8 years and have put maybe 500-800 rounds through mostly hand loads. Its has a aluminum framed free floating stock, Leopold rings and base, and Muller tactical scope. After upgrading stock about 5 years ago I could shoot 3/4-1 moa groups regularly. Starting about a year ago my groups started opening up and now they are like 2-4moa!!! Cleaned with hopps #9 about every 30-50 rounds using a bore guide and one piece coated rod.... never really used copper solvent because until recently my groups were good. Scrubbed barrel really good with copper solvent couple days ago Didn't actually get much green on my patches... went out back for a little range time, first five fouling shots grouped about 1 moa great!! Next group 1.5 moa, next 2 moa, next 4 moa!!! WTH!!!! Didn't shoot any quicker then usual, never had much of a problem with heat walking the barrel. The load was the same I've been shooting for about 3 years with good accuracy (44gn imr 4064 over 165gn sierra GK). Any help or suggestions would be great! When it stops raining im going to try some factory ammo to rule a problem with hand loads out.
 

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Check your crown. Do you clean with a hard steel or aluminum or brass rod? You might have nicked or gouged the crown with over cleaning with the three types of rod listed above. If it is nicked or worn, get the barrel cut and recrowned and invest in a good quality Dewey or Tipton Coated Rod. Always clean from the chamber and never leave copper solvents like Sweets 7.62 or Barnes in the barrel for more than 10-15 Minutes. Or it could be leading, but I doubt it unless you shoot cast. Other than that it might just be you, though I doubt that as well, if you have that much experience with the rifle.

Good Luck,

-Mo.
 
I'd check scope bases, rings for loose screws. After that measure OAL again to see how much throat has eroded and adjust bullets to compensate....check yourself for flinch or some breathing control, and thoroghly clean trigger group...

Also check action screws for proper torque...
And good luck..
 
I vote with Hooligan. Check out the scope mounts and if that doesn't fix the problem, try another scope. As for the crown I doubt that crown issues would cause such variation in group size. As for copper removal, Hoppe's isn't it. Try Boretech Eliminator, and if you don't see blue then you've got no copper. And forget the ammonia based products. I had them all but threw them all away after using the Boretech.

When I had the problem you now have, it was the scope.
 
AS stated by a few already-Hoppes is Air Freshner only. Stuff don't work for squat. I am with a few other here-Boretech. Check your free float also. When she heats up see if you can still run a pc of paper under barrel all the way beck to action. I have seen my share of people that say their barrel is free floated,but when it heats up the paper will not slide under barrel. Being this is a new problem I doubt that is the issue, but it is something to check.
 
All of these are good products for cleaning your rifle

Try using Flitz or JB's bore cleaner on a patch, I assume your going thru the action/chamber which is the correct way to clean a bolt action rifle. Use several patches alternate with flitz or JB's bore cleaner 1st then Hoppes bore solvent on cotton patches until your bore sparkles. These products will not harm/damage your barrel nor will they require a lot of time getting the barrel clean. William
 
4runnerman, ill pick up some jb's today and try that! I've been told before hoppes is nothing more then something to wet your bore, but for the last 7 years its seem to work :) also I'm getting ready to have my barrel cut down 4" so we will see if its the crown and I think ill have the gunsmith scope the bore and everything to make sure something else is not going on....
 
I have about the same number of rounds through my Rem 700, .270 Win and have noticed fouling. One day, I had my chrony out and noticed that velocities climbed on every round fired, and after about 8 rounds, noticed a difference in extraction force. Cleaning with Butch's Bore shine and bronze bushing helped.

That was when I was shooting Barnes bullets, so switched to Hornady GMX and don't have as much of a problem, but I suspect the throat is getting a bit rough. I intend to fire some 90 grain Sierra light loads to see if they are affected. If not, perhaps even the Hornady GMX bullets are also a bit softer than regular bullets.
 
I disagree on the scope mount. The fact that it went from 2-4+ MOA back down to 1MOA after the scrubbing and then started expanding again proves it isn't the scope mounts. I'm also voting for fouling - either copper or carbon.
 
If it is copper, I've never seen anything that works better than KG-12. It is kind of a pain to use because it doesn't soak into a patch but it really get out the copper.
 
Like I mentioned earlier, it could be the scope. I had a similar problem with a rifle. Groups got larger and random. Drove me nuts. Had to be fouling, but it wasn't. Must be the cheap syn stock. Got a new stock, but still had the problem. Was reading a hunting mag, and the writer mentioned a problem like mine, and that the scope had been the problem. Well, I thought. That can't be it, the scope is new and expensive. But, I was flat out of other ideas, so I put an old Bushnell on it. Groups were great. It was the scope. I still had the receipt, so the LGS took it back and I got another good old reliable Leupold and have had no problems with accuracy since (except when fouling got real bad once).
 
When you run a dry patch through the barrel, pay attention to any rough spots that might be felt as the patch hits fouling or eroded areas. Fouling often first occurs within about 10 inches of the chamber.
 
Sounds to me like something is going on with the barrel/throat. The fact that you had good groups after intensive cleaning, and then as you fired more rounds things deteriorated, I would guess it is the throat area that has begun to erode and is maybe rough and peeling copper off the bullet jackets.

Get a smith to scope the bore. If they can't find anything definitive, and you are satisfied the mechanics of the gun and the scope are satisfactory, then you might consider changing the barrel. Criterion makes Rem/Age barrels that you can install yourself. You need tools and go/no go gages.

Final analysis goes like this (for me---your mileage may vary :D) If the smithy finds nothing it is highly unlikely that you can change bullet components and fix it. I fiddled around for almost a year with a Rem 700SPS Varmint and finally decided I had enough. The gun went bye bye.
 
From what I have seen over the years, shot out barrels seem to shoot better when copper fouled.
Mueller scope is most likely the problem.
 
Another vote for the scope. In fact, I would almost bet on it. Check the receiver screws also. From your photo, it looks as if you have the dovetailed turn in type rings with windage adjustable rears. From my experience, that is not the best type setup for that type rifle.

Again, let me say that it is not what I like to use, others may find them OK and that's fine. Some higher end scope manufacturers advise against them as well. NightForce for example strongly advises against them.

The most solid mounting scenario will probably be a steel one piece picatinny rail bedded to the receiver, with thread locking compound on the screws. I use red.

If you use red, keep in mind that they will be very difficult to remove if you intend to do so at a later time.

Good quality rings are also helpful to keep things solidly in place.

If you are using the rifle for target shooting, the weight will also be helpful.
 
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