Remington .41 rimfire deringer, could use some info please

C

colreed

Inactive
I am contemplating selling my pair of Remington .41 rimfire derringers but know very little about them. At a glance they appear the same, but there are minor differences that make me think they may be different models. Any help would be appreciated.
I hope the 3 slideshows I made work here. The first one shows both pieces together. They are labeled 108 and 249 (for SN). The writing on top of the rib is positioned a little different between them, and the front sight is shaped different. One is flat and the other is taller. Are they 'brothers' or more like 'cousins'? :confused:

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/colreed1/slideshow/41 rimfire both

The next link shows SN 108. The front sight is taller than for 249 and there is a small crack at the top edge of the righthand grip. The Remington stamp on top goes all the way back almost to the hinge.

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/colreed1/slideshow/41 rimfire SN 108

The last link shows SN 249. The front sight is flatter and does not come to a peak like 108. Also, the stamping on top stops well short of the hinge. It has interesting grips. They are well worn with both of them sporting a hand carved X at the top of each grip. I don't know the history of this piece. Could the Xs be for 'victims' from ye old riverboat gambling:eek:
You will see in one picture that I have a set of replacement grips that can go with this piece.

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/colreed1/slideshow/41 rimfire SN 249

I've included photos of both hinges. I don't see any cracks.

Any advice as to model(s), condition, desireability, etc, will be much appreciated.
 
First off, those numbers are not serial numbers, they are batch numbers, used to keep track of parts when guns were fitted in batches, then disassembled for bluing/plating. The numbers made sure the fitted parts got back together again. IIRC, those guns were never serial numbered. Both guns are what collectors call the Type II or Model No. 3. Number 249 is the Fifth variation, made 1900-1903, with about 8,000 made. Number 108 is the Sixth variation, made from 1904-1910. The exact number of that variation made seems to be unknown, but it may have been as high as 25,000, of a total of some 80,000 for all variations. Note that many of the "variations" are only in the markings, which may simply indicate replacement of the master roll stamp due to breakage, not any actual change in the guns themselves.

The front sight difference may be due to a customer alteration or to hand fitting at the factory; it makes no difference in value.

I can't tell if the smooth grip is rosewood or if the checkering has been worn off; if the former, there is a slight premium. The checkered grips are hard rubber, or gutta percha, which grows brittle over time, so please be very careful with them; they break easily. Those guns have little finish left, so I would WAG a value at around $1200-1300 each. On a good day, with the right buyer, they could bring more.

FWIW, breakage of the hinge is not due to firing the gun, it is due to "flipping" open the barrel, so be careful and don't do that.

Jim
 
James K: super good info. Thanks

The smooth grips actually shows some fine checkering around the edges, so they are obviously hard rubber.
Forgot to mention, I also have 15 or 20 orig cartridges.
Was somewhat surprised at your value estimate. I scanned a couple auction sites which showed quite a bit less.
Do you think this forum would be a good place to advertise them? It would be nice for them to wind up with a collector who really appreciates them.
Again, many thanks, and best regards,
Reed
 
I was also surprised at the estimate, but found a two line address on line for $2100 +. This one had a claimed 90% nickel with wood grips.
 
I do the best I can on value estimates, but they are just estimates and obviously are based only on pictures. Sometimes I get heck for being too low, sometimes for being too high. Sometimes on the same gun. But they are always just my two cents and I don't even get that.

Actually, I believe ANY Remington double derringer that is not a complete junker with the hinge intact is worth at least $1000. Those I see at gun shows for that or under usually turn out to have the hinge brazed or the crack covered up. (BTW, those frames are iron and can't be welded, so they have to be brazed.)

Jim
 
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