Remington 1858 Brasser

B

BlackPowderBen

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I have a friend who owns a .44 Remington 1858 Bison revolver with brass frame. What would be a good load for me to recomend him? My brass framed revolver experience hasn't been to good:). He uses pyrodex mostly, I need to convince him to get some goex. He shoots cast conical's by the way. I've never had a brass framed 1858 so I dont know it's strength over the brass Colts.
 
ben

Well if he has a BP pistol and is going to be shooting it, I think you should get him to join the forum. He will probably have lots more questions anyway. :)
 
Sounds like he's already got things figured out; wrong IMO, but figured out.

Shooting conicals out of a brasser is just speeding up the days that thing will be a rusted and stretched out hulk hanging on his wall.
 
The Remington design is stronger, but a brass frame will last longer with loads of less recoil.
Round ball would be easier on it and probably more accurate.
And require less powder for an equivalent velocity, too.
 
The Remington design is stronger, but a brass frame will last longer with loads of less recoil.
Click to expand...

Any strength gain with the Remington is useless with bp loads. The brass frames are equally weak.
 
Well, at least there's no worry of an arbor coming loose with Remingtons.
Or a loose or worn wedge.
(We all all know how painful a worn wedgie can be).
That has to count for something.
Are you referring to the actual strength of the two designs, or the importance of those differences with BP?
Including the rumored safety valve of excess pressure exiting the nipples after firing.
 
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Having the correct arbor length fixes a lot of wedge problems. The actual strength of the two designs is immaterial. If you have excess nipple pressure you need new nipples. 25 grains of bp will fubar a brass Remington just as quick as it will a brass Colt.
 
g.wilikers,
If the open top guns were right from the factory, a lot of the problems wouldn't exist. That being said, the design layout between the two would go to the open top because of the tensile strength of the arbor. The square (by itself ) is a weak design when you are putting putting force on one corner. That is the case with the Remie. That is why I could bend a Remie frame while loading it but I don't know of anyone pulling an arbor out while loading. I have sheared a screw loading a Walker before but not pulled an arbor.
The forces both frames deal with are linear from the cylinder. Since the arbor is the axis as well, it deals with the force easily. With the Remie , the axis is much smaller and the force is dealt with the frame at the farthest point from center. The arbor of the Colt design is also supported by a barrel assy with a (comparatively) generous lug.

As far as the nips being a safety vent, don't know how much of that really matters. A soft leadplug is about as safe a safety valve as you can get. I'm working on an anti blowback nipple which will have zero venting . . . . . we shall see in the near future if there is anything to that.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
Oh yeah!!
What I also meant to say was, I have two folks that will be doing tests with brass frame guns (one is out West, the other is in Gawga!! This is a longevity test and rounds will be counted and with what loads. Both guns are the '51 Navy's in .44 cal. This way they get a "fun" gun while using the more robust caliber (kinda like testing the Navy and the Army at the same time!) !!
The gun going westward will be a full fanner with all the bells and whistles while the gun going south (of me anyway) will get a regular full precision tune and setup. I believe the fanner will be using round ball and 30gr. charges. Not sure what the Suthun gun's diet will be.

This will be a good test and I will update as often as info comes in here (in the forums) and on Instagram (follow me!!)

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
Thanks, 45 Dragoon, for that explanation.
Much better than someone just throwing out negatives.
From my own experience, the Remingtons held up better, to the point that I gave up on the open frame ones.
That was long ago, though.
As you explained, that was probably more about the quality of manufacturing than the design.
Looking forward to the results of the brass frame tests.
They are most attractive, both for looks and price.
An 1860 is one of the best looking of all.
 
Thanks g.wilikers,
I believe (the tests will show) the factory offerings allow the cylinder of the open top to beat the gun loose because of the arbor problem. Even the softer material of the "brassers " should benefit from close tolerance setup to protect them from themselves. If not, it may prove that "brassers" are a "budget" shooter with limited use (depending on the charge used).


swathdiver, wow!!! (Thanks for backing me up!!)

I don't want anyone to think I dislike Remies , I use one with a conversion cyl. as a part time carry! Trust my life with something I don't think is up to the task? Not hardly!!!!
I think the -frame with a screw in barrel (remember, the Root (Colt) gun had a top strap with screw in barrel) design was a smart manufacturing move and Remington flooded the market with it. The older open tops were much more labor intensive to produce but the Colt machine was already massive and rolling strong ( you can't turn a ship on a dime!!)
So, I'm not putting the Remie down, just trying to set the record straight.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
I've seen more than a few .36 Remmy brassers that were broke in two under the cutout where the ball gets loaded.
Click to expand...
It's easy to see why a brass frame 1858 Remington might be susceptible to breaking at that spot.
There's not much there, even less than an 1860 Colt.
Guess the folks who designed them weren't thinking in terms of brass.
 
45 Dragoon...If not, it may prove that "brassers" are a "budget" shooter with limited use (depending on the charge used).
Click to expand...

Which is my experience. The first cap and ball revolver I bought back in 1969 was an 1851 Navy brass framed revolver. Back then, there was of course no internet and very little printed information on shooting these guns, so I just loaded it up and shot it loose within two years. By 1971, I had to hold the cylinder with my left hand back against the recoil shield in order to get it to fire.
 
Yap, the slide hammer on the arbor will do the deed on um!!!

My point exactly. Put a hammer in a box where it can't move. It won't damage any thing. Give it some room and it will beat the box to pieces.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram
 
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