Reminded of a few things...

R

r_magill

New member
Well, something interesting happened to my wife and I yesterday while on a date. Some background: I was carrying a Kel-Tec P32 (normally I’ll carry a .40 Sig229 or a .45 1911, but with the extreme heat, I decided to down-size and pocket carry) and my wife wasn’t carrying. She has a license but is having a hard time finding a way to conceal a firearm that she can shoot well.

My wife and I sat down at a local fast-food restaurant (I know – cheap date – but we’re on a tight budget so it’s all we can afford). As is the norm, I sit down facing the door and my wife is across from me. The place we are eating in is in a decent part of town, but occasionally people that I would rather not see in a back alley wonder through. I notice a few of these people in the restaurant, but none of them was really raising any red-flags. My wife had the same observation.

So, there we are, enjoying our meal when I hear someone behind me (and between me and the registers) yell “No body move!”. You could hear a pin drop a mile away. My first thought was “SH*T! This place is being robbed and my back is to the robber!” Next immediate thought: “D***IT! I have my pea shooter, I should have brought the Sig and my spare mags”

Well, needing more information and not wanting to jump up and get shot by whoever just said that, or his buddies, I use my peripheral vision and slowly scan the room. Everyone is frozen with a shocked look on their face, trying not to be noticed. I continue to scan until I come to the person who said not to move:

It was a middle-aged woman talking on her cell phone. Apparently, the rest of her group was lost and she was going to go out and meet them. She didn’t want them to go anywhere, so she loudly (loud enough that everyone in the restaurant heard it) told her group that “No body move” so she can get them.:eek::mad:

I debated if I should post this or not, but I finally decided because it was a reminder to me of a few things, and hopefully it will be for you, too. Personally, this was a reminder that things can quickly go bad (and suddenly we wish we had that bigger gun that we thought would be too uncomfortable to wear) but also how things are not always how they seem. What, to the 30 people there, was clearly a robbery was simply an idiot on a cell phone trying to reconnect with her group. This was also a good reminder to clearly identify the target (or in this case, threat) before firing. Firing at just a sound or an otherwise unconfirmed threat (which I would never do, but unfortunately some have) can have disastrous and tragic results… even if a court finds that no one did anything illegal. This was also a wake-up call for my wife, who is now determined to find a way to carry, ASAP:D.
 
Wow, that's scary. Definately a wake up call to make 100% sure its really going down before drawing your weapon. I can imagine you weren't the happiest person in the world once you found out it was an idiot on a cell phone. But hey, anything is better than a true robbery attempt...
 
r magill:

That points out what I tell my buddies -- facing the door is a good tactic in the old western movies, but in real life the threat will be inside, not barging through the door. You fell victim to fiction.

:(
 
Jim, you do have a very good point that the BG can already be inside the room/area - as this shows. However, there are still occasions when the BG comes through the door and his intent is plain (gun already out, face hidden, etc.) so I would not completely rule out watching the door. Ideally, a complete 360 (or 180 w/back to the wall) view is best - covers both situations.

The main reason that I sit facing the door (and, if possible, against a wall - but it was a crowded restaurant and I could not) is because I am a cop and, as such, managed to irk some rather unsavory people. Because of this, whenever I am in public I take a quick scan to see if anyone I know is there and, if not, sit facing the door to make sure none of the unsavory types that would recognize me get the jump on me.

I also trust my wife to watch my back. In this particular instance, there was no gun being deployed, so there was nothing for my wife to respond to, until the lady on the phone started yelling.

Max - yeah, I was pretty mad at the lady... making us all think we were being robbed and all, but very relieved that the restaurant was not being robbed.
 
Did this really happen ?

Why do you sit with your back to where the money is ? Is that not the point of every robbery that might take place ? It seems you would always be with your back to the action.
 
Hook, I sit facing the door for a few reasons. However, when I first enter an eatery, I check to make sure there is no one with a professional grudge against me. Once this is done, I sit watching the door so that:
1) I can see who is entering. As a result of my career choice, I have p***ed off enough people that want to do me harm (yes, some people have threatened to track me down and "blow off" my head") that, should we happen to both in the same place at the same time, I want to be the one to see him first.

2) While some robberies occur once the robber is at the register, a lot of the violent ones start from the doorway - or there are clear signs the robbery is going to take place from the doorway (wearing mask, gun in hand, etc). For these robberies, I want every advantage - including seeing them, hopefully, before they even enter the building.

3) Ideally, I try to sit so I can have a good view of the entire eatery with my back to a wall so no one can sneak up behind me (as would have happened here). However, this particular time there was only one table available. In fact, after my wife and I sat down, there were people who could not sit down at a table to eat because they were all taken.

4) My wife, who has a similar mindset to me, and does occasionally carry, will watch what is going on behind me. It is a team effort and in this way, all 360 degrees of the room is covered. This is no different than if you and a buddy of yours that ccws sit opposite of each other so that between both of you the entire room is covered.

It comes down to preparing for the more-likely events first. I have already ran into people from work while I was not working, and I know I will again. The statistics are much higher that I will continue to meet people from work that hate me than I will be robbed. For that reason, I position myself to guard against the most likely threat, but in a way that I will not open myself up to another threat (like a robbery). As I already stated, this restaurant was full and that was the only table left in the entire place. The choice was sit how we did or go somewhere else. We chose to stay. While the positioning was not ideal by a long shot, we made the best of it that we could.
 
What I get from the OP is that a situation can be dangerous or benign and that one should not try to react instantaneously.

Also, the OP’er is an LEO and has different requirements than a civilian CCW’er. His reasoning seems valid to me that he watch the door. He’s experienced and I’m not.

Because he’s an LEO he has an obligation even when off duty to act as an LEO on duty if the situation warrants it.

Me? I’ll sit quietly and hand over my money, even my wallet if that’s asked for. That’s why I don’t carry anything of sentimental worth in my wallet. I will try to hide my gun by body position; probably by surreptitiously having my wallet out even before being told to hand it over. I hope the BG will not see my CHL until he’s gone; it’s tucked away.

I’m not going to draw my gun unless there’s no choice.

The problem I’m having right now is that I have a cartoon picture in my mind of a restaurant filled with nothing but licensed carriers. The walls are lined shoulder to shoulder with people sitting to face the door and the middle of the restaurant has 27 empty tables.
 
This is a nice reminder for me, as I usually carry a larger pistol, but sometimes I get lazy and downsize. I try to make it a habit to sit where I can see whats going on as well as I can, but you can never be prepared for everything.
 
This is the exact reason I do everything I can to sit in a corner, . . . as far from the cash register as I can get.

Yeah, . . . that's me, . . . bald headed old geezer over in the corner, . . . back to the wall, . . . threat scanning all the time I'm in the place.

Uhhhh, . . . yep, . . . that's one of the reasons I'm 66.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
"The problem I’m having right now is that I have a cartoon picture in my mind of a restaurant filled with nothing but licensed carriers. The walls are lined shoulder to shoulder with people sitting to face the door and the middle of the restaurant has 27 empty tables."

This made me laugh out loud!
 
I thought I was just paranoid but I always sit in any crowded place such as a restaurant with my back to the wall and a commanding view of the entire area. Come to find out that most of my fellow combat veterans do the same thing. It is an instinct of survival. When we discussed this, we also learned that our commonality dictates that we scope out the exits and have an escape plan already in place within seconds of being seated, if not before.

I always preach that if you are going to carry, carry all the time and make sure you have the gun that you are most comfortable with and have shot it often enough that it feels like part of your hand. Dress around your gun, not vice versa.

And as always, use your instincts and common sense. Because you carry a gun does not make you a LEO. A gun is a means to protect your life and that of other people, especially loved loves. I don't mean to sound cold, but the truth of the matter is that getting into a gun battle to protect someone else's cash register is just being foolish. Your life is not worth taking the chance for a few dollars. In this particular case, you were set up thinking the worst was about to happen but you took your time to analyze the situation and evaluate your options.

Because of my career and incidents in my past, I am always on high alert...not that I want to be all the time. However, take control over where you sit in places where you are not familiar with who comes and goes. It's one thing to see what's coming at you, but the ultimate tragedy is never seeing what hit you.

Every incident teaches a lesson. From your post, guess you have learned an important one.
 
July 24, 2011, 06:27 PM #10
Dwight55
Senior Member


Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,080 This is the exact reason I do everything I can to sit in a corner, . . . as far from the cash register as I can get.

Yeah, . . . that's me, . . . bald headed old geezer over in the corner, . . . back to the wall, . . . threat scanning all the time I'm in the place.

Uhhhh, . . . yep, . . . that's one of the reasons I'm 66.

May God bless,
Dwight
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Dwight, well said, as usual! I'm with you, except I'm bald (shaved) & 52. I do everything I can to find a corner booth where the only thing behind me is a nice wall. Pretty comfy if I do say so!
 
I am glad that some people have learned from this experience and thank you to those that did respond. This was one of those things where a few things came together to create that situation. Like most of the posters, I try to have my back to the wall, too. But in this case I decided to stay and sit where I did instead of finding another place to eat.

Yes, I did downsize my pistol, but not out of complacency. With the temperatures as hot as they were, I decided to not have steel against my bare skin, but rather to pocket carry my Kel-Tec. Yes, it was a downsize, but not because I thought nothing would happen. If I thought that, I would not have carried. Instead, I downsized because of my environment (the extreme temperature). My only other option would have been to openly carry, which I did not do because of other places my wife and I had to go.

Fortunately, this was not the real thing, no one was injured, and lessons were learned/reinforced.
 
The good news from all of this is that whether by training of natural reason, you were practicing the "OODA" loop used in law enforcement.

O = Observe
O = Orient
D = Decide
A = Action

In net: When challenged, Observe what is happening, Orient yourself toward the challenge, Decide what you need to do, then take the appropriate Action. (i.e. address the immediate threat, retreat to a safer place, or take cover).
 
The good news from all of this is that whether by training of natural reason, you were practicing the "OODA" loop used in law enforcement.

O = Observe
O = Orient
D = Decide

YEP my thoughts also.
Mace
 
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