Reloading with smokeless powder

D

Doc Holliday

New member
I like small convenient loads for plinking.
I use 20 gr. by vol. Pyrodex with a .451 lead ball in .45 colt brass. I don't use wonder wads as my ball shaves perfectly.
Can I use the same size ball and brass but with say 5 gr by weight of smokeless instead of Pyrodex, with a wad or two on top of the powder to not smash the ball on the powder like I have to do with Pyrodex?
 
I have no idea on what charge or what powder you will need, maybe trail boss, but you shouldnt need any wads under the ball. Fortunecookie45lc on you tube experimented with round balls in brass cases with good results.

Whats the weight of your balls?

That felt weird to type.
 
OK, I just couldn't resist...

"What's the weight of your balls?"
Depends on who's holding them!
 
Still writing

Speer .451 balls weigh 5 grams each.
I'm used to reloading with Pyrodex and mashing the ball down on the powder.
If I'm not supposed to mash it down on smokeless powder, what do I do?
Would it HURT to use wads to form a base for the ball since I'm not crimping because the ball fits tight?
Or just put in the smokeless powder and leave space between it and the ball, which I don't have to push all the way in because it fits tight and even shaves.
Pyrodex doesn't need open space inside, but does smokeless need space between itself and the bullet?
Obviously I don't yet know how to use smokeless but am tired of the mess, fouling and cleanup required from Pyrodex and black powder.
Any understanding reply will be appreciated.
And I don't want to blow up my gun so would 5 gr. by weight of smokeless be roughly similar to 20 gr. by volume of Pyrodex?
 
5 grams equal 77 grains, that a pretty light bullet. You'll need to figure out a good charge weight for the powder you pick, Ill again recommend trail boss being it is a bulky powder which means it will fill the case well, and it can be run at low velocities. Perhaps someome with the quickload softwear can do the math on a good charge weight.

No, do not run wads, you will be giving the powder less space to burn which ups the pressure to an unknown and possibly unsave pressure.

There are several fine folks here who have forgotten way more about reloading than I know and Im sure they will be along sortly.
 
Sorry Doc but a 451 Speer round ball weighs 138 gr. Try 9 grams. 000Buck weighs close to 5 grams / 70 grains.

Due to the case size you can use 5 grains of a fast powder but would probably want to use some dacron filler to hold the powder near the primer for a good burn.
 
5 grams is not correct.
The Speer .451" ball weighs 138 grains, about 9 grammes if you must speak French.

Some older Speer manuals showed round balls in .45 LC but all I have left is No 12 and it does not include such novelties. I THINK they recommended the 141 grain .454" ball. I THINK they seated them at the case mouth with a crimp at the "equator" but I am not certain and am not making recommendations without hard information.

I looked around for you and found a thread at:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?74586-Round-Ball-Loads-for-the-45-Colt
 
with light loads you are not going to be consistent with lots of space in the case.

Is all the powder at the rear of the case setting on the flash hole, or is it laid evenly along the bottom of the case when the gun is extended to be ready to fire, or is it all down by the bullet?

Consistency is accuracy for the most part. When I'm loading gallery loads (or super light loads I put a veg. fiber wad over the powder to hold it in the same spot all the time.

Of course this is more critical in rifles, but it works the same way in larger pistol cases like the 45 LC, 44s, or even 38s.
 
Speer #11 (4th printing mar 1991)

.45 COLT
Colt Single Action
5.5" barrel
1-16" twist
W-W cases
CCI 300 primer

.454" dia. Speer 141gr ROUND BALL

(only one load listed for each powder)
powder amt MV
SR4756 5.0gr 565fps
SR7625 4.5gr 556fps
Unique 4.5gr 632fps
231 4.0gr 544fps
700X 4.0gr 566fps
Bullseye 3.2gr 553fps
Red Dot 3.2gr 568fps

No instruction are given on how to seat the ball, just the load data.

I am providing this information for reference ONLY.
 
A .451" lead ball in .45 Colt is too small. Not by much, but .45 Colt uses a .452" bullet. And round balls fly like bricks. Even out of a rifled barrel.
And forget about anything metric. Metric only applies to reloading in Europe. Isn't always French either. At one time, every European country had their own flavour of metric. S'why they were always fighting each other. snicker.
 
My 45 Colt load was a.454" Hornady ball over 3 grains Bullseye. First seated on the ball, then later I seated them below the case mouth. The deeper you seat them the more consistent they are.
 
My 45 Colt load was a.454" Hornady ball over 3 grains Bullseye. First seated on the ball, then later I seated them below the case mouth. The deeper you seat them the more consistent they are.
Click to expand...
This is pretty good advice, Doc. I've used the same ball dia. (0.454") with 4 gr of Win 231 for 50' target practice. Groups run to about 2" at 50' if I'm having a good eyes day. Clean up is easier than BP too.

I seat the ball below the case mouth, and run a greasy thumb of lube over the exposed case mouth lips. Helps to lube the bbl. Black powder "bumps" up the size of the pure lead ball much better than smokeless as you know, so I've always used the bigger dia. HTH's Rod
 
I use a .44 mag RCBS neck expander to seat the balls deep. The friction in the case was enough to keep them in place during recoil for me, but check as you fire to make sure they're not pulling, especially with heavier charges.

Avoid wads with round balls. I tried fiber wads to hold the powder back, but found one in the bore of my carbine after a shot.

I coat them and and most other lead bullets with liquid alox. Makes clean up a breeze. Patches and mineral spirits is usually all it takes when using the magic liquid.
 
I use a very small charge of Bullseye in my .44 roundball loads (from my old Speer manual). I don't know how consistent or accurate they really are but they are not wildly INaccurate.

We've shot close range steel with them and with muffs on, about all you hear is the hammer falling and the steel ringing. Kind of like a giant airgun.

It's the only live ammo I've ever fired in the house. Possum in the basement DRT with a neck shot. Bled like the proverbial pig.

In .45 Colt, Speer calls for:

.454 roundball and 3.2 gr of Bullseye among several other powders. Please verify before using.

Jim Watson is correct. Speer recommends just crimping the case mouth over the ball. Deep seating sounds interesting but using fast powders, something to do with care.
 
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BP shooters have probably been tempted to substitute more readily available smokeless powder for black powder.
Myself included.
But everything I've read on the subject has convinced me it's a really bad idea.
The characteristics of the two are too different to reliably trust.
Just a thought.
 
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