Ok heres the deal. My uncle passed about a year ago and left me with this new hobby!I now have a 257 ackley built on a high wall and numerous bags of .257 roberts brass.I also have a large quantity of IMR 4831.I am wondering if this powder and in what amount will be enough to fireform the roberts brass to the ackley chamber.any educated guesses?
reloading for .257 ackley
- Thread starter okiedave
- Start date
On a VZ24 I built, I have done 257 Roberts Ackley Improved with Win 257 Roberts brass.
I used powder as fast as H322 with 75 gr Max shooting 0.5 moa at 3500 fps long brass life, 3900 fps short brass life.
On a Uberti high wall I built, I have done 257 Roberts Ackley improved rimmed with Norma 7x57mm rimmed brass with turned necks.
I have shot 115 gr Nos Bal Tips at 3050 fps with H4350 powder with long brass life, and faster with H4895 with short brass life.
I used powder as fast as H322 with 75 gr Max shooting 0.5 moa at 3500 fps long brass life, 3900 fps short brass life.
On a Uberti high wall I built, I have done 257 Roberts Ackley improved rimmed with Norma 7x57mm rimmed brass with turned necks.
I have shot 115 gr Nos Bal Tips at 3050 fps with H4350 powder with long brass life, and faster with H4895 with short brass life.
Good cartridge!.I have used one for many years.
That IMR4831 is in the perfect "zone" of burn rate.I chose H 4831SC.They are not quite the same,data is not interchangeable.
With my load,my bullet of choice is the 115 gr Ballistic Tip.
On fireforming.....If the person who chambered it knew their stuff,new brass or factory loads SHOULD fit,or,"headspace" snug on the junction of the neck and the shoulder.(To the lurking critics,I know it is a mis-use of the term "headspace"It gets the idea across.)
What is best,is to have the cartridge held back to the bolt face at ignition.
Then you won't start the brass out with undesirable stretch.
For a load,just a nice,moderate,.257 Roberts load.Thats the original PO Ackley plan,shoot factory ammo.,or equivalent.
The HiWall is a good,strong action,but I would NOT go pushing for the extreme performance the AI folks get excited about.There is no getting around a fact,higher velocity is higher pressure.If I think my rifle is special so I can get an extra 300 fps above max,...No,I'm not special.Neither is my rifle.I'm just taking the risks of running extreme pressure.
I'd go easy on your Dad's Hiwall.The barrel and brass will last longer.
Use the book AI data. Stay under max.As you work up your charge,beaware of sticky extraction.Stop,and take a step back when you get there.
Enjoy!!
That IMR4831 is in the perfect "zone" of burn rate.I chose H 4831SC.They are not quite the same,data is not interchangeable.
With my load,my bullet of choice is the 115 gr Ballistic Tip.
On fireforming.....If the person who chambered it knew their stuff,new brass or factory loads SHOULD fit,or,"headspace" snug on the junction of the neck and the shoulder.(To the lurking critics,I know it is a mis-use of the term "headspace"It gets the idea across.)
What is best,is to have the cartridge held back to the bolt face at ignition.
Then you won't start the brass out with undesirable stretch.
For a load,just a nice,moderate,.257 Roberts load.Thats the original PO Ackley plan,shoot factory ammo.,or equivalent.
The HiWall is a good,strong action,but I would NOT go pushing for the extreme performance the AI folks get excited about.There is no getting around a fact,higher velocity is higher pressure.If I think my rifle is special so I can get an extra 300 fps above max,...No,I'm not special.Neither is my rifle.I'm just taking the risks of running extreme pressure.
I'd go easy on your Dad's Hiwall.The barrel and brass will last longer.
Use the book AI data. Stay under max.As you work up your charge,beaware of sticky extraction.Stop,and take a step back when you get there.
Enjoy!!
That is reasonable thinking.
I have fireformed a lot of them. PO Ackley intended for factory loads to be fired in his chambers.No subloading necessary. You can use 257 Roberts load data.Of course,don't jump right in to a max load.
Two ways to look at fireforming.
Make good,quality,useful practice or even hunting ammo in 257 Roberts.They shoot fine.
Or ,use it as an opportunity to burn up the odd,experimental,leftover appropriate burn rate powders and bullets cluttering your cabinets.
That's OK,too. But no "subloads." 4831 will work fine,but load it like you were loading 257 R moderate hunting rounds.
I suggest virgin brass.,too. Fireforming workhardened brass does not go well
I have fireformed a lot of them. PO Ackley intended for factory loads to be fired in his chambers.No subloading necessary. You can use 257 Roberts load data.Of course,don't jump right in to a max load.
Two ways to look at fireforming.
Make good,quality,useful practice or even hunting ammo in 257 Roberts.They shoot fine.
Or ,use it as an opportunity to burn up the odd,experimental,leftover appropriate burn rate powders and bullets cluttering your cabinets.
That's OK,too. But no "subloads." 4831 will work fine,but load it like you were loading 257 R moderate hunting rounds.
I suggest virgin brass.,too. Fireforming workhardened brass does not go well
I'm not shooting 257AI but shooting 222AI,243AI,35 WhelenAI and I don't think it's much of a problem fire forming brass.
the problem with High Wall vs bolt action your not going to feel bolt close on the neck. Maybe reason Clark used rimmed case.
Maybe need to ask OP few more questions.
the problem with High Wall vs bolt action your not going to feel bolt close on the neck. Maybe reason Clark used rimmed case.
Maybe need to ask OP few more questions.
I built a 257RAI on a VZ24 action with a Lothar Walther light varmint barrel in 2002. I used a piece of new Winchester 257 Roberts brass as a go gauge.
Mistake.
The firing pin pushes the case forward until it is stopped by the ring [of where the chamber shoulder meets the chamber neck]. That ring is a sharp edge to the unformed brass, and it cuts in ~~0.004".
The cartridge fires, the pressure makes the brass grip the chamber walls while the pressure pushes back on the case head stretching the brass.
The case just behind the shoulder stretches too much and cracks.
After ~100 experimental fixes, the best thing to do is 1) set the barrel back 0.004" or 2) put 10 gr pistol powder in the case, cover with cream of wheat, and fire straight up with no bullet. This forms half of the 40 degree shoulder, which is plenty for standing up to the firing pin push.
Mistake.
The firing pin pushes the case forward until it is stopped by the ring [of where the chamber shoulder meets the chamber neck]. That ring is a sharp edge to the unformed brass, and it cuts in ~~0.004".
The cartridge fires, the pressure makes the brass grip the chamber walls while the pressure pushes back on the case head stretching the brass.
The case just behind the shoulder stretches too much and cracks.
After ~100 experimental fixes, the best thing to do is 1) set the barrel back 0.004" or 2) put 10 gr pistol powder in the case, cover with cream of wheat, and fire straight up with no bullet. This forms half of the 40 degree shoulder, which is plenty for standing up to the firing pin push.
Seems like I rented my reamer from White Rock.They had headspace gages to rent specific to the AI ,not .257 R gages.
The guy with the cutter grinder determines if a reamer cuts a sharp edge chamber that cuts brass.Thats hard to do,gringing wheels put a natural inside corner radius based on grit size.A 100 grit wheel will cut a .005 min corner rad.
You would have to cut a relief in the reamer at that juncture to cut a sharp edge.
I cut the chambers of the pair of .257 AI rifles I build so that I could just feel light,zero clearance contact with the .257 AI headspace "go" gage.
Both rifles had over 70 % contact both locking lugs.
Both have fireformed a lot of brass over the last 25 years.I do not have stretch ring or loose pocket problems.Eventually,I start getting split necks.Then I scrap the lot and form 100 more.
Fireforming with full .257 R loads has never been a problem.
The only time we had an issue,my buddy with the other rifle did not understand controlled round feed.He was single loading to the chamber,and by forcing the claw to snap over,he set back the neck/shoulder of the case.The extra head clearance caused case separations.
The only other AI I have built was a30-06. I got beautiful results with that one,too.
These were virgin barrels,not reworked original chambers.Iused AI specific headspace gages.
For a while,my LGS was happy to sellme all the old,faded,dusty boxes of 117 gr round nose bullets.I'd load those out to crush into the lands.Just one more thing to help keep the case head on the bolt face.
The guy with the cutter grinder determines if a reamer cuts a sharp edge chamber that cuts brass.Thats hard to do,gringing wheels put a natural inside corner radius based on grit size.A 100 grit wheel will cut a .005 min corner rad.
You would have to cut a relief in the reamer at that juncture to cut a sharp edge.
I cut the chambers of the pair of .257 AI rifles I build so that I could just feel light,zero clearance contact with the .257 AI headspace "go" gage.
Both rifles had over 70 % contact both locking lugs.
Both have fireformed a lot of brass over the last 25 years.I do not have stretch ring or loose pocket problems.Eventually,I start getting split necks.Then I scrap the lot and form 100 more.
Fireforming with full .257 R loads has never been a problem.
The only time we had an issue,my buddy with the other rifle did not understand controlled round feed.He was single loading to the chamber,and by forcing the claw to snap over,he set back the neck/shoulder of the case.The extra head clearance caused case separations.
The only other AI I have built was a30-06. I got beautiful results with that one,too.
These were virgin barrels,not reworked original chambers.Iused AI specific headspace gages.
For a while,my LGS was happy to sellme all the old,faded,dusty boxes of 117 gr round nose bullets.I'd load those out to crush into the lands.Just one more thing to help keep the case head on the bolt face.
Wow this is a lot of good info Thank you all!!! My next adventure will be finding info for loading for a .17 A&M Bee in a Rem Hepburn w/heavy A&M rifle Co.barrel.I have about 200 rnds brass of 218 Bee to neck down to .17.I saw cabellas just listed .218 Bee amo in newest catalog 
20 rnds $90.00
HELLLLP
20 rnds $90.00HELLLLP
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