Reloading 44-40

Yes, bottle neck but with a very slit bottle neck. First, resize then check over all length according to your loading manual and trim if need be.
 
Same as any other cartridge -- very "slight" (;)) bottleneck.
Normally no need to trim as it's low pressures and also
headspaces on the rim.
 
I never trimmed .44-40 when shooting CAS.
I have a TiN coated sizing die that is very convenient, sizing the thin brass with little or no case lube, but it is not as tight as my steel die, so I use a Lee (collet) Factory Crimp Die to sock in a good crimp and prevent setback in the tube magazine and set out in the revolver.
 
I use a commercial 0.427 bullet from Hunter's Supply. One thing to check: most of today's barrels are 0.429. My Pietta Model P revolvers have that dimension barrel and 0.427 forcing cones. Hasn't made a difference, though.
 
It sounds like Pietta is using a barrel originally made for one of their 44 cap and ball revolvers or for someone else's 44 Special or Magnum. It may shoot OK since you are using bullets made for CAS that are probably not too hard to upset to 0.430" in the barrel's forcing cone. But if the accuracy is not satisfactory, I would get the cylinder throats reamed from 0.427" to 0.0430"-0.04305" and use cast bullets sized for 44 Russian or Special. If the timing on the cylinder is good, that might provide a noticeable tightening of groups fired off bags.
 
A .44 cap and ball is typically a .45 by cartridge gun measure.

SAAMI groove diameter for .44-40 is 0.4285" vs .44 Magnum .429" revolver, .431" rifle(!). Unfortunately they consider it only as a rifle round and there is no revolver chamber specification with a throat diameter. .427" is likely a legacy dimension.

My .44-40 Colt 3rd generation and Redman lined Winchester will take .429" bullets only in thin Winchester brass, the chamber neck dimension is the limiting factor not throat or barrel. I found some .428" bullets I could use in Starline brass but eventually ended up with bulk .427" which were adequate for CAS.
 
@Foghorn: The classic load for the .44-40 is a 200 grain lead flatpoint, which is what I use. Mine are commercial cast bullets, and they mike at .428. They chamber fine in my Uberti, colt clone 1873 revolver. The barrel slugged at .429, and seems to give reasonable accuracy. As everyone has noted, there does not seem to be a standard for the .44-40, and what works can be unique with a manufacturer or individual gun. I really think that the .38-40 and .44-40 are cartridges for the experienced handloader (which you are).

Note what Jim Watson said about the Lee collet factory crimp die. The .44-40 needs a decided crimp and I had trouble with the cartridge deforming or buckling with a roll crimp die. A couple of years ago, in a similar thread, Jim Watson offered the solution of Lee crimp, collet die and suddenly all my crimping problems went away with the Lee die. So, thank you Jim. Listen to Jim and get a Lee die. Midway has them for 11 bucks, and they are item # 796466. Just type that number into the Midway search box, and the die will magically appear on your screen.

(Say 'Hi" to Miss Prissy. That's a joke, son.)
 
I should have refreshed my memory on that round's SAAMI numbers. I wonder what the original designers had in mind? I know the 44 cal BP balls are usually .45, but they are available as small as 0.433" (Hornady) due to some older bores being smaller (though some like to use them in a larger bore with a thicker patch, too). I kept getting bad link messages on Pietta's data links, so I couldn't check to see exactly what they were doing.

The CIP runs the bore slightly tighter, and the bullet is a tenth and a half bigger than the SAAMI dimensions. These differences result from rounding to the nearest 0.01 mm. So, CIP's groove diameter winds up to 0.0011" bigger than their bullet. They use the same old-fashioned shallow rifling with 0.003" tall lands.

The chambers being intended for thin brass is a practical issue for throat expansion. It means you would likely need an overall slightly larger finishing reamer to successfully loosen the throats. Much bother. Soft bullets, and maybe even soft bullets with a slight hollow base could be a good choice rather than the gunsmithing.
 
I am using a Uberti '73 Winchester clone in .44-40. The barrel shows a .4285 groove which is what it should be, I think. I was thinking of the Lee .429-200 since it has a crimp groove. I am hoping it will work well with Pyrodex.
 
I have a bunch of 44-40’s, but my main CAS rifle is a Uberti 1866. It is an older one and I think they tried to stay with original 44-40 dimensions as it will not chamber a round with a bullet larger than .428. It shoots them very well. Now I think all the manufacturers use a 44 Special/ Magnum barrel for 44-40. Like the Ruger dual cylinder models or Rossi 92’s, which used to come in 44-40 and 44 Magnum. I size and load all my 44-40’s at .428 and they work in all guns well.
If you are single stage reloading go easy as the case mouth enters the resizing die, if it hits the die it will bend the mouth. Be super careful if using a progressive press. Another trick I do is just seat the bullet to correct length without a crimp, then run it back up a resizing die (with the primer punch removed) so it squeezes (crimps) about the first 1/8 th of a inch of the case mouth, to ensure it chambers in everything.
 
I use a Dillon 550 for the .44-40s, originally, I did damage a couple of cases, but not in a while. What I have trouble with is the case does not chamber as easily as I would like on the rifle. I was hoping the Lee bullet with a crimp groove would help that.
 
The cases are thin in that slight bottle - neck area ...
Be very careful when seating bullets .
I have found if I am very careful in expanding the mouth just enough to get the bullet started straight and if I seat the bullet in one step and then crimp the bullet in a second step ,,, and do Not apply too heavy a crimp (the neck will bulge) I can get a good 12 to 20 Cowboy level reloadings ... it all depends on the brass .
Starline has the best brass ... it is long lasting !

If you trim your brass to one consistent length when new ... you are good for cowboy loads ... it doesn't grow .
Good Luck
Load Safe,
Gary
 
Deltadart said:
I use a Dillon 550 for the .44-40s, originally, I did damage a couple of cases, but not in a while. What I have trouble with is the case does not chamber as easily as I would like on the rifle. I was hoping the Lee bullet with a crimp groove would help that.
Click to expand...
Your Uberti 1873 is probably the same barrel/ chamber as my ‘66. You might try sizing bullets to .428, which fixed the chambering problem n the rifle, and using a spare resizing die as a crimp die, just run it in far enough to size about half the neck, which fixed chambering problems in my various revolvers, both original and repro. I was already doing this when I read a John Taffin article about loading 44-40 and he was using that method. Whatever I load chambers easily in a wide variety of guns.
 
FoghornLeghorn said:
It's a bottleneck cartridge, right? Is it like my other bottleneck cartridges and has to be trimmed before reloading?
Click to expand...
To answer the only question asked...

Short answer - NO!

Long Answer - ...At the mouse fart pressures and close distances most uses now days, I doubt you will ever have to trim a 44-40 case due to stretching. Set your bullet seating depth for the longest case you have and load. If you desire to trim the first batch, I doubt you will ever have to do it again unless you repeatedly shoot higher pressure cartridges. Before ya'll get your panties in a wad, I did not say excessive pressures, just normal max pressures.

Now if you decide to get serious and reload to original accuracy, pressures and velocities, then we can get technical!
 
Sorry, I was not do a good job of explaining the issue with my '73. The cartridge hang up on the mouth of the cartridge or slight ring on the bullet. If I rattle the finger lever a little, they will go in to the chamber with little effort. I use the Lee collet die to crimp, with as little force as I can to go easy on that thin brass. I like the cartridge and rifle very well they just have their own little habits to get used to.
 
with two of my lever guns, (marlin 336, and winchester 1873) if you work the action slowly they do that same thing, they seem to have been designed for very fast lever movement. when i work the lever quickly they never show any sign of hanging up or damaging a bullet/case. have you tried fliping the lever quickly?
 
I recommend Saeco #420: https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/16952

1873-Smoke-Wagon-Saeco420-Unique.jpg


1873-44-40-Saeco420-100yds.jpg


Same for both pistol & `73 rifle.
Guaranteed no hang-ups
Like water....
 
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