refinishing and the serial number....

K

Koda94

New member
If one was to re-finish a receiver would that be "altering" the serial number?

Seems like any of the finishing operations would technically alter the serial number or is that overthinking the idea.
 
Or make the serial number difficult to read.

Let's look at federal law:

Under 18 USC 922(k):
(k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer’s or manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
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Courts have said, for example:

  • U.S. v. Horey, 36 F.3d 1106 (C.A.10 (Okl.), 1993):
    ...We turn to defendant's argument that his conviction for violating 18 U.S.C. 922(k) was also based on insufficient evidence. Defendant argues the government failed to sufficiently show that the revolver's serial number was removed, obliterated, or altered. He asserts the statute does not reach serial numbers that are still readable.

    Police officers testified that the serial number was obliterated. In addition, an expert in firearms and tool mark examination testified the revolver's serial number was partially obscured or obliterated. The examiner also noted that it was possible one or two additional serial numbers were completely obliterated. Based on the clear language of 922(k), we reject defendant's argument that the statute does not reach the firearm recovered by the police in this case. The evidence is sufficient to sustain the conviction, and we AFFIRM the jury's verdict....
    Click to expand...

  • See also U.S. v. Adams, 305 F.3d 30 (Fed. 1st Cir., 2002)(emphasis added):
    ...As for the evidence, that was clearly sufficient once it is understood that any alteration that works against legibility is enough; ...The pistol was presented to the jury. The case agent testified at trial that he could read the six digits of the serial number but with difficulty. At oral argument, Adams's counsel asked that this court examine the original pistol, and we now report the results.

    ...

    Of course, judgment as to the degree of impairment was for the jury. But a reasonable jury could easily conclude that this pistol had been altered so as to make it appreciably more difficult to read the serial number. Indeed, a reasonable jury could hardly reach any other conclusion...
    Click to expand...
 
thanks for the explanation, good to know there is some leeway for simple refinishing.

There isn’t anything regarding any other markings such as name and logo or model?
 
The logo should not be a huge problem, but definitely refrain from harming the model or manufacturer as the Feds may not like that. Better safe than sorry.

John
 
Model designation doesn't matter, and often doesn't appear on the part of the firearm that constitutes the receiver. The primary element to be preserved is the serial number, and next is the name and city of the manufacturer (if originally stamped into the receiver).

I shoot mostly semi-autos (1911s), and I don't think I've ever seen on that had the model stamped into the receiver.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
The primary element to be preserved is the serial number, and next is the name and city of the manufacturer (if originally stamped into the receiver).
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Is there another law that states this? I don’t see anything about the name or city in 922(k), (I’m assuming name of manufacturer).
 
I believe I saw that on the BATFE FAQ site. Unfortunately, a few months ago they re-did the FAQ site and now I can't find anything.

If you can find it, every FAQ provides the statutory reference at the end.
 
I was able to find something on the BATFE site, the way I read it the additional marking requirements apply only to the manufacturer or importer to be required to permanently mark the firearm (27 CFR 478.92). I’m not seeing anything prohibiting any person from altering the additional markings.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.92


anyways, I’m not planning on altering any additional markings I was just curious if re-finishing was considered altering and as Frank referenced case law its not as long as it doesn’t make the serial number more difficult to read.

I removed an optic mount on my 10/22 and was disappointed to learn the blue loctite used eroded the factory paint in large blotches where it seeped under the mount. I was thinking of stripping the rest of the paint and applying Gun-Kote.
 
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All firearms (in this case read receivers) are required to be marked the manufacturer's name and location (city and state) and serial number. As noted, obliterating or altering this info is verboten.
If modifications or work to the firearm is going to obliterate the info, it is legal to re-stamp the info on the receiver. It needs to be done as immediately as possible.
So, if you were to polish the receiver of a firearm, and believed the serial number would be removed, the number would be noted before this process and re-stamped as soon as the polishing was completed.
All required markings are required to be in characters at least 3/32" high and at least 005" deep.
 
Rugers are usually stamped pretty deep. You'd have to.take quite a bit of metal off to eliminate the info. Filling in with paint doesn't count, as that can be scraped off to reveal the info.
 
Gunfixr said:
...So, if you were to polish the receiver of a firearm, and believed the serial number would be removed, the number would be noted before this process and re-stamped as soon as the polishing was completed....
Click to expand...
Please cite legal authority for the proposition that doing so would be legal. 18 USC 922(k) prohibits possession of a gun on which the:
...manufacturer’s serial number removed, obliterated, or altered....
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If the serial number is removed by refinishing, the manufacture's serial number will have been removed or obliterated. Any number added by some other party is no longer the manufacturer's serial number.
 
Gunfixr said:
...Filling in with paint doesn't count, as that can be scraped off to reveal the info...
Click to expand...
And that is wrong and will not prevent successful prosecution for violation of 18 USC 922(k).

As federal courts have held, affirming convictions for violations of 18 USC 922(k):

  • U.S. v. Horey, 36 F.3d 1106 (C.A.10 (Okl.), 1993):
    ...We turn to defendant's argument that his conviction for violating 18 U.S.C. 922(k) was also based on insufficient evidence. Defendant argues the government failed to sufficiently show that the revolver's serial number was removed, obliterated, or altered. He asserts the statute does not reach serial numbers that are still readable.

    Police officers testified that the serial number was obliterated. In addition, an expert in firearms and tool mark examination testified the revolver's serial number was partially obscured or obliterated. The examiner also noted that it was possible one or two additional serial numbers were completely obliterated. Based on the clear language of 922(k), we reject defendant's argument that the statute does not reach the firearm recovered by the police in this case. The evidence is sufficient to sustain the conviction, and we AFFIRM the jury's verdict....
    Click to expand...

  • See also U.S. v. Adams, 305 F.3d 30 (Fed. 1st Cir., 2002)(emphasis added):
    ...As for the evidence, that was clearly sufficient once it is understood that any alteration that works against legibility is enough; ...The pistol was presented to the jury. The case agent testified at trial that he could read the six digits of the serial number but with difficulty. At oral argument, Adams's counsel asked that this court examine the original pistol, and we now report the results.

    ...

    Of course, judgment as to the degree of impairment was for the jury. But a reasonable jury could easily conclude that this pistol had been altered so as to make it appreciably more difficult to read the serial number. Indeed, a reasonable jury could hardly reach any other conclusion...
    Click to expand...
 
Im confident I understand the scope of the situation but for the sake of discussion I too would like to see a source for legal law.

Gunfixr said:
All firearms (in this case read receivers) are required to be marked the manufacturer's name and location (city and state) and serial number. As noted, obliterating or altering this info is verboten.
Click to expand...

What I read under 27 CFR 478.92 was specific for manufacturers and importers requirements pertaining to additional markings other than the serial number, said nothing about any other person possibly altering that addional information after the gun is sold privately.


As far as filling in with excessive paint rendering the serial number unreadable that would be the same as altering illegally as that works against legibility.
 
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