reduced 44mag load?

E

edfardos

New member
I have a new, smaller 44mag in gun jail, so I thought I'd work up some loads during my 10-day reloading period.

My Ruger Super RedHawk loves 23.5 grains of H110 and dominates this power factor, with 240grain bullets being driven at 1430fps.

My new 44mag, the S&W model69 weighs considerably less so I'd like to create a cartridge somewhere between a 44spcl and 44mag, using 44mag brass. Maybe 950 to 1100 fps.

Given these powders, what would be your first choice under a Oregon Trail Laser-cast, (hard cast .431 lswc):

AA#5
HP-38
2400
H110 (can't be downloaded)


I have gobs of HP38, haven't seen AA#5 in years, and plenty of 2400 & h110.

My first instinct was a max load of HP38 (7.4grains), which gets close to a minimum load of 2400(17grains), which I fear will burn dirty. Economy is also a factor. I normally only use magnum primers. Will these small amounts be position sensitive in the roomy brass? I can't deep-seat the bullet on account of the crimping groove.


thanks for any hints! Any/all anecdotal evidence is welcome -- I really like to confirm book-data is safe by hearing from fellow reloaders.

-edfardos
 
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I'd use HP-38 for loads in the 44 special range.

I have found 2400 to be a great powder for loads in-between 44 special and 44 magnum. IMR 4227 has worked well for me to. I use them for my light .357 loads also.

I have no experience with AA#5. It seems like a logical choice for light magnum loads, but I haven;t purchased any before.
 
Thanks reddog -- regarding 2400, how low can you go with a 240grain lswc? Loading manuals go down to 17grains, but that's still high in the 1200fps range. Can you get 2400 down to 1000fps and still get a clean/consistent burn?

Back on HP38, the Hodgdon data is wildly different than all other bullet-manufuacturer data. Hodgdon indicates you can go from 8.0 to 11.0, while Hornady, for example,says the max is 7.7grains. Anyone use the Hodgdon data and live to tell about it?

My plan is to max out HP38, then pickup from there with 2400 so I can cover the entire fps range. Accuracy/cleanliness/economy being my key requirements in that order, well, that, and not blowing up my small pistol.

thanks again!
-edfardos
 
Of the powders you mention, W231/HP38 would be my choice for lighter .44 Magnum loads. Light loading 2400 will prolly result in plenty of unburned powder and mebbe erratic ignition. I tried 2400 in .38 Special once long ago and it was almost like a sand blasting gun spewing a lot of powder outta the muzzle...
 
I've loaded 240 cast to around 1000 fps with 231, which is the same as hp38. Don't remember the charge weight. Accuracy wasn't good in my gun, with the bullets I was using, but it might be fine in yours.
Hodgdon's data is good. They show 5.5 to 11 gr hp38 with a 240 gr cast bullet. Hornady's data is for their swaged bullet.
You can seat the lswc deeper, and roll crimp over the front band. That reduces case capacity to about that of a 44 special. Understand that pressure and velocity will be higher when the coal is shorter. I have done this in 357 and 44, and it does make a difference.
 
Thanks again,

SSA, The Oregon Trail LaserCast bullet would be suitable for the Hodgdon data then since it's cast? Is it mostly about leading? The LaserCast's are really hard and sized at .431 (not .430 as tested by hodgdon and hornady).

I'm still hoping for anecdotal evidence from the field with a hard cast 240grain bullet with more than 7.7grains of HP38/w231. Just to be sure.

best,
-edfardos
 
I think those Lasercast Bullets are super hard, like 22 BRN or something. You might find that they don't do so well in light loads unless they happen to be a perfect fit for your gun.
 
Lyman #48 goes down to 10 grains 2400 behind a 245 grain Lead Round Nose in 44 Special.

I've done 11 grains behind a 240 grain wadcutter with the bullet seated half in the case & half outside the case. I don't recall the load as being especially dirty. I'm sure I had a heavy roll crimp to help ensure combustion.
 
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I've been loading 7.0 grains of HP-38 with a 200 grain RN 12 bhn. Shoots clean and around 950 fps out of my 8 3/8" M 29. Nice load.
 
Thanks for all the info, I've been working up loads today based on your advice thus far;

Oregon Trail Laser Cast 240g .431", cci350

HP38: 7.1. 7.4, 8.1
2400: 17, 18


I'll Crony these on a Super RedHawk 9.5" and a S&W m69 4".

I also have some loose Missouri Bullet Company 44's and some xtreme plated 44's laying around -- neither of which worked well in the old RedHawk (leading and or plating separation near max loads).


more soon, and thanks!

-edfardos
 
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The following are my go-to loads for my S&W M69 .44 Magnum as well as several other Smiths and Rugers. Through the 38 oz. M69, they're especially comfortable...and a daily carry staple here on our farm. Please note the use of Special or Magnum brass in the individual loads.

Skeeter Skelton's old load [7.5 gr of Unique behind any good 240 gr LSWC] will give 950+fps out of most any .44 Magnum. This load was originally put up in 44 Special brass. To use Magnum brass, bump the charge up to 8.0 to 8.5 gr of Unique for similar velocity. In my .44's, either is a sub-2" grouping load at 25 yds.

For 231 or HP38, try 6.5 gr with a good 240 gr LSWC for similar velocity and even better accuracy. I've gone as high as 7.5 gr in Special brass with good results and fine grouping. For Magnum brass, my start load in 7.0 gr of 231.

As always, these are my loads that I'm satisfied are safe in my guns as I load them. If interested, you need to work up to them, after consulting a GOOD manual and considering all the pressure implications.

Rod
 
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I load 9.1 gr of HP38 under a 265 gr SWC for about 1100 fps in my S&W 629. Not max, but hot enough to burn clean and very accurate. With a 240 gr bullet I'd go up to as much as 9.5 gr, but start at 9.0 and see how accurate it is.
 
Excellent - thanks guys. So the hodgdon data indicating "11.0 grains of hp38" isn't extraordinary. Winchester (win231) has the same data, which is reassuring since it's the same powder.

I'll see how my HP38 loads turn out, and work up to your suggestions if required. I'm guessing 1100 fps will be my target velocity for targets. probably 1300 for backpacking. If I ever see an actual can of Unique, bluedot, or AA#5 again, i'll try those and take your suggestions as well.

thanks again... I may try some of these in my in-hand ruger SRH. I still have a 10-day reloading period for the new S&W model 69.

cool,
edfardos
 
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=5392

Name: ken waters 44 special 14gr 2400
Notes: Smith and Wesson 629 2.5in barrel performance center
Shots: 5
Average: 767 FPS
SD: 40 FPS
Min: 733 FPS
Max: 832 FPS
Spread: 99 FPS
Barometric Pressure: 30.1 inHg
Temperature: 44F
Weight: 240 grains

Name: ken waters 44 special 14gr 2400
Notes: Redhawk 7.5in barrel
Shots: 5
Average: 1004 FPS
SD: 43 FPS
Min: 956 FPS
Max: 1071 FPS
Spread: 115 FPS
Barometric Pressure: 30.1 inHg
Temperature: 44F
Weight: 240 grains
 
thanks Mr.Revolver Guy! so according to those examples, the barrel length makes a huge difference. I'm guessing the extra energy on the short barrel goes into a spectacular muzzle flash.

that's 1100fps, which is may target "target" load... Tho, if I can get there accurately with cheaper/less/available powder, that's good too.

I wonder if the standard deviation is tighter using 2400 vs the fast powders (filling the case would be more consistent imho).

--edfardos
 
I've gone to 11 gr. of W231 / HP38 under a 240 gr plated RN. Accuracy drops off over 10 gr. Your sweet spot should be somewhere between 8-9 gr.

Even though it isn't one of you listed powders... I was messing around with older formula Red Dot and 240 gr. plated just because. I found my first drops at 7.0 gr under that 240 gr. plated were surprisingly accurate and clean. Turns out that 7.0 gr. IS the sweet spot for my SRH.
 
OT actually publishes a load manual, and they have one that fits your need:

240 OT SWC
7.2 gr HP-38
WLP
COL 1.605
984 fps out of a 9 1/2" Super Redhawk

Good shooting!
 
thanks Mr.Revolver Guy! so according to those examples, the barrel length makes a huge difference. I'm guessing the extra energy on the short barrel goes into a spectacular muzzle flash.

that's 1100fps, which is may target "target" load... Tho, if I can get there accurately with cheaper/less/available powder, that's good too.

I wonder if the standard deviation is tighter using 2400 vs the fast powders (filling the case would be more consistent imho).
Click to expand...

Barrel length doesn't matter to the extreme as some may think. As a matter of fact I have seen that same 3 inch revolver turn in higher velocity than an 8inch barrel.

There are so many variables, tight throats, rate of powder burn, bullet hardness etc. I did a review with a few 44mags of different lengths borrowed from friends with 3 different loads including factory and I was surprised by the results.
http://www.dayattherange.com/?p=2925
 
Ligonlierbill, I have a copy of the Oregon trail manual, and was curious why they stopped at 7.2 grains of hp38/win231. Hodgdon, Winchester data goes to 11 grains. Plus we have a voucher on this thread for 11 grains. I guess that's why we work up. What are pressure signs in 44 mag? Hard to eject brass? CCI primers barely flatten even with full loads of h110, which is my standard load for the super Redhawk.

That reduced load site has great info too. Their velocities seem high compared to my empirical observations in my barrel. Again, that's why we start low and work up I suppose.

Thanks again everyone!

Edfardos
 
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