Reduced 38 special loads

G

GTNMUDY

New member
I need some info on factory loads.

My wife wanted a gun for concealed carry. Since I work a t a large retail store in the gun department I thought it would be easy for her to find a gun that would fit her.

I looked at Ruger, S&W and Taurus 380's.

The problem is for her to rack the slide back. Each one was tough for her to operate due to the small frame.

Looked at larger frame compact guns but nothing felt good to her.

I then had her try the 5 shot 38 Spec. The S&W double action pull was on the heavy side, The ruger about the same. When she tried the Taurus she admitted the grip was good and the trigger pull was good for her.

I am sure that even the lowest Remington factory load may be to much fro her to handle. If it is I told her I would reload a lighter load with less recoil.

I have looked in my reloading books and the only book that would indicate a factory load equiv was a 45th edition Lyman reloading book that I have had since I started reloading.

I guess what i am looking for is the velocity of different 38 specials that are on the market.

Once I can find the vel I can compare to my reloading data.

Thanks for your advise in advance.

PS, i already bought the gun so returning it is not a option (but it becoming my gun is ;) )
 
If you are going to reload for her I suggest some starting loads with Bullseye or Trail Boss. TB will give you the least recoil.

For a light load in Factory ammo I like American Eagle 158 grain lead. They also make a 130 grain FMJ that isn't too hard to shoot.

Most of your self defense ammo will be too much for the to handle it sounds like.
 
I guess what i am looking for is the velocity of different 38 specials that are on the marke
Click to expand...

Barrel length and gap between cylinder and barrel have a direct effect on velocity. So not a good idea using velocity. IMO.


Look at HODGDON DATA for a 125 gr bullet of your choice. Use the starting load listed. See if that works .

There is a loading using Trail Boss with a lead bullet that should produce light recoil. I have not tried it. If to light, the charge can be increased from the starting loads.

The Alliant website has data using Bullseye powder. This is what i use for light target loads in 38 spec. , with a 158 gr lead swc. It flows thru a powder measure well.
 
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I love my M85 Ultralite and Im a big guy so I like the hot plus p loads but my wife has the poly protector taurus and the load she likes is the 90grCritical Defense Lite by Hornady. Somebody makes a 38spl short that would be awesome for plinking and getting to know your gun.
 
With all due respect is your wife somehow physically disabled? Those little compact pistols can be tough but its a point of technique rather than strength. Same goes for recoil to a certain point. I only ask because Ive seen quite a few ladies get shorted on fire power. Again, no disrespect or meaning to jump to conclusions.

38 can be loaded waaay down to where it will recoil like 22. Obviously the trouble lies in not squibbing. The only powder I know that can be loaded waaay down with out worry is titegroup. It can be loaded way down, doesn't care how full the case is and doesnt care about the guns position.
I use it to make 44 special loads in mag cases. As little as 4 grains in a mag case. Works dandy.
 
Reloading does allow for lower recoiling loads. I usually load my 38's with green dot. I have also loaded them with titegroup.

The Alliant 2004 guide has a max load of 3.5 green dot for 158 lswc, the bullet that I cast (870 fps, 4" barrel). My load is 3.2 grains, 1.45". Basically, the starting load. I don't know velocity and it would be different between my two revolvers. I have loaded green dot as low as 2.7 gr. This is a very light load, but I checked the barrel after each shot. No bullets stuck in the barrel, but I was getting nervous.

My wife, who also has trouble racking the slide on any of my semi's has shot my standard reload (3.2 gr green dot) out of my stainless vaquero and my airweight 637. The recoil is almost non existent out of the vaquero. It is still there in the 637 but doesn't sting like a factory round. My 637 stays loaded with my lead swc's.

By the way, on the semi's. I did pick up a Ruger LC9s and my wife has no trouble racking the slide on it. Next step is to get her to the range with it. My cast 124 9's are easy shooting as well with green dot.
 
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Just saying.
There are options to smooth out a revolvers behaviour. Trigger Pull can be resolved easily with lighter aftermarket Action springs. Let off Squint can be reduced sometimes resolved by lightly stoning many of a handguns internals. Washer shimming even smooth-ens such stoning more so.

As far as ammo recipes. That depends on the powder/s you have on hand. All lower velocity's loadings are basically duplicated one book to another. Only difference is powder brand used and measured amounts. For lower velocity loadings. I personally like Winchesters 231 powder or Accurate's #5 is another terrific powder for such use. (I do not use fast burning powders like Alliant's Bullseye and other similar Burn rated powders. Being a old timer and my using a single stage press I'm quite aware I might accidentally double charge. :eek:)

Yup!! It sure is a good day to get some reloading done GTNMUDY. :)
 
The trigger pull out of the box is irrelevant. All new firearms require a trigger job out of the box. Grips can be changed too.
Anyway, forget the 158's. 148 grain, swaged or cast, WC's with 2.5 to 2.8 of Bullseye has been the standard .38 Special target load for eons. A swaged or cast bullet will expand to about .60 calibre upon impact.
Supposedly available from Remington, Winchester and Federal, et al. MV is around 690 fps.
"...she tried the Taurus..." What Taurus?
Mind you, you really should forget trying to decide what handgun she needs and just take her shopping.
 
The pistol is the Taurus 85, .38 spl +P, 2", 5 rnd stainless.

I just got home from a gun show and picked up some reloading dies and 50 rnds of 38 special w/158 cast bullets, reloads.

My thought was to pull the bullets out of some and reload them with different loads. I have Bullseye, 2400 and W231 on hand.

I can experiment with the different powders.

Thanks for your suggestions.
 
My wife carries and practices with a Ruger LCR.38spcl. For practice I load her some 125g RN with Trail Boss. It kicks about like a .22wmr but is very accurate at SD ranges. She can shoot it all day with out bruised palms. She is 5' 120lbs and handles it just fine.

I load these by the thousands!

You can't make too many mistakes with TB, just don't compress it.

The Taurus should be heavier than the Ruger and handle recoil even better.

That LCR trigger gets good after about two nights dry firing at the TV ;)
 
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She can learn to handle the recoil of normal factory 38 Spcl loads as long as she's not disabled.

You can't depend on the low powered loads for self defense and you won't be able to reduce them enough to really matter.

If the gun doesn't have them, buy some rubber grips that will cushion her hand.
 
I have had many ( mostly female )( some elderly ) students
that could not rack the slide on an auto
and were recoil sensitive in the beginning of
learning to shoot, later recoil sensitivity
decreases
A lot of females do not have the upper body strength
or strength in their fingers to hold and work the slide


I developed a low recoil load for these beginners
with their 5 shot, light weight revolvers

38SPL (very low recoil )
102gr Rem. HP ( 380 bullet )
5.2gr Win. 231
# 500 CCI primer
coal 1.450
** Taper crimped ** ( RCBS has a taper crimp die for 38 SPL )

( tested in -- S&W 2" barrel, Taurus 2" barrel, S&W 357 6" barrel )
( accurate in all tested guns )
 
Thanks for the info.

Is the ** Taper crimped ** important.

I ask because the dies I bought are 357 mag dies.

Didn't think about until I got home.
 
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Your dies DID come with a crimp die - I think you need to learn a lot more before reloading, especially for somebody else to risk.

Almost all .38 dies come with a bullet seating/roll-crimp die - buying a .38 die set that does a taper crimp is possible from some manufacturers (RCBS is one), but they are much less common. For revolver use, the roll-crimp (when any crimp is needed) is the standard type of crimp.

Since the whole point of your thread is about loading mouse-fart loads (standard .38 Spl loads are pretty wimpy to begin with), the issue of a crimp is almost nonsensical. When you load super-low recoil anything, you only use enough "crimp" to flatten out the case mouth belling from the expander die - you do not even need any real crimp. And if you want a light crimp anyway, this is totally possible with any roll-crimp die; you simply need to know enough about reloading to be able to properly adjust the dies.
 
Just curious, wouldn't a factory target 38spl wadcutter load be a good solution ? I'm assuming relatively low recoil, and they may not be as efficient in SD as a hollowpoint +P, but I'd sure hate to get shot with one. :)
 
Read the pamphlet in the die set. Your bullet seating die should also crimp and it should be a roll crimp.

The factory crimp die in the 4 die set allows crimp to be done in separate operation. I have the 4 die set and do it this way. My 4 die set has the same bullet set/crimp die that your 3 die set has.
 
For those concerned about reduced loads for self defense, I understand that this is a issue.

Since my wife will be going through concealed carry class I wanted her to learn with reduced loads so she can get the hang of the gun. She will be shooting a lot of range time and I want her to be comfortable with the gun.

When she is packing the gun for defense it WILL BE LOADED WITH a proper factory load.

Just like your first shot at a deer, you wont feel the recoil of the first or second shot.
 
To tutor another on how to adjust a seater die for a desired crimp i.e. Tappered or Roll is a very detailed procedure and assuredly a long typing write. A subject most of us experienced reloaders would rather not write about. But ~~maybe this info below will help you to understand and will assuredly experience during your learning how.

Crimping/s: is a whole new learning experience all by itself.

Just saying. Set aside a fair amount of brass and bullets your willing to destroy or ruin. (I would suggest not using live ammo in the Setting-Up procedure of your Seater die.) i.e. empty powder-less brass is best.

Crimping involves the brass being trimmed to spec before-hand or not depending on preference crimp wanted.

Roll crimp: Bullets must have a cannelure band (jacketed) or crimp ring (cast) and its brass must be trimmed to Minimum or Maximum Length prior too a Roll crimp being attempted.

Tappered crimp: works on all bullets profiles with or without crimping bands. Only thing gained in a Tappered crimp is the intensity of the brass's neck to squeeze down onto its bullet.

Crimp setting involves:
Seater Die's Lock Ring and seater Stem both loosened and the downward or clockwise screwing of a Seater Die's body. To a point where just the slightness hair thickness turn of the die body down on the cartridge case is required to be successful. Or can be too much turn and your un-successful. Which often requires a partial restart over. (Thus the need for throwaway cartridge brass )

This is all I intend to write on the subject. Anyone else want to add or critique feel free to do so.
 
The reason I asked about crimp on the load is I am using 357 mag dies loading 38 spl rounds.

If the crimp in needed then I will buy a 38 Spl die for crimp.

I have been loading since 1971, and have loaded rounds that needed crimp and understand that you got to get it right of you will ruin you brass...

I didn't intend on starting a reloading class here, just wanted some info on reduced loads....

NUFF SAID

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