Reduced .308 load

A

AL45

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I'm looking for a reduced recoil load for .308. In the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition, it shows a 150 grain jacketed bullet loaded with IMR-4227. A starting load of 23.3 grains producing 2055 FPS and a Max load of 26.0 grains producing 2260 FPS. I have a reduced .308 load using Trail Boss which produces around 1400 FPS, but would prefer to save it for my .45 Colt loads. I have plenty of IMR-4227 and would like to use it. I see a lot of negative comments on the good old internet about using IMR-4227 for .308, since it is a medium fast powder, but would assume it is safe since it is in a reloading manual. Just curious as to what your thoughts are.
 
If its in the manual it should be safe. Keep in mind recuced loads probably wont play nice in semi auto guns. Velocities might not be super consistent.

What are the loads for? Hunting, target shooting.....? Is there a target velocity your trying to hit?
 
It's a medium fast PISTOL powder. My thoughts are stick to rifle powders for rifle cartridges. I can't imagine any accuracy or dependability from such loads.
I've loaded 42gr of H4895, for 2588. Shoots 1/2". Hornady X list 37.2gr for 2300. I'd try 35gr.
 
The rifle is a Ruger Scout rifle. I enjoy shooting it, but I'm closing in on 60 years old and while pistol recoil doesn't bother me, rifle recoil is starting to. I'm looking for a load I can use in a timed shooting contest that some friends and I occassionally do. I have used 4227 in some .45 colt loads, so I am familiar with it's performance there.
 
I believe that, like 2400, IMR 4227 was originally introduced as a rifle powder for the 22 Hornet and other small rifle cartridges. The "R" in IMR stands for "Rifle", after all. Today, however, like 2400, it is mostly used in magnum revolver cartridges. Using it in a 308 will be fine, except you're not going to get very good loading density with the over-150-grain bullet weights. A 110-grain bullet or a 125-grain bullet should be a better match to it.
 
I use H4895, which can be downloaded quite a bit, and 125gr bullets, to make loads for young shooters. I run the 125gr at 2650fps. The grandkids took a couple deer with this load.
My goal was to create a very low recoil 308W hunting load.
 
Data for cast bullet loads from RCBS Cast Bullet Manual #1
308 Winchester - Cast Bullets - sized .309"
Powder - IMR 4227

30-115-SP (115 gr. w/ gas check) - start : 22.0 grs. @ 1857 fps /// Max : 23.0 grs. @ 1952 fps

30-150-FN (150 gr. w/ gas check) - start : 20.0 grs @ 1806 fps./// Max: 22.0 grs. @ 1972 fps.

30-180-SP (180 gr. w/ gas check) - Start: 22.0 grs. @ 1828 fps /// Max: 24.0 grs. @ 1983 fps .

Hope this data helps ... A quick look in Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition shows IMR 4227 loads listed for 308 Winchester and various weights of cast bullets .
It's been my experience that shooting lead is an easy way to get reduced / felt recoil down ... the Lyman has data for 7 different bullets from 150 gr. to 200 gr.

You can use the RCBS data for 115 gr. bullet to load the 110 grain bullets you mention in your post .

If you want to use a cast bullet and are having trouble finding data with 4227 for it , let me know what bullet it is ...and I will check my cast bullet reloading manuals for you .
Gary
 
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Thanks to everyone for their input. I had thought about using cast bullets since I use them in all the other calibers I reload. I wasn't sure about leading up the barrel in higher velocities. i will check into that.
 
AL45 said:
Thanks to everyone for their input. I had thought about using cast bullets since I use them in all the other calibers I reload. I wasn't sure about leading up the barrel in higher velocities. i will check into that.
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I am powder coating my bullets, but have not tried any dedicated rifle bullets. So far 9mm, 38/357, and 44mag/spl with great results. I am planning to get .309 170g round flat point mold for my 30-06 in the next month or so. Will be interesting to see how my reduced load workup for that goes :)

Lee mold I am planning to get. should be a great plinking bullet as well a short range hunting.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010210460?pid=574963
 
I have run 25.0 gr. of H4895 with 150 gr. jacketed bullets and 175 gr. cast bullets which have proved to be decently accurate in several .308 Win. rifles. I run that cast bullet using Unique for cat sneeze loads as well. Usually somewhere between 5.0 gr. and 10.o gr. depend one what the particular rifle likes. Same sneeze loads work in the 30-06 as well. Lots of fun for casual target shooting and plinking.
Paul B.
 
It's a medium fast PISTOL powder.
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No, its not. When used in a pistol round, its a pretty slow pistol powder, too slow to be suitable in smaller cases (like 9mm) but usable in .357 or larger magnums.

It's a fast rifle powder, as Uncle Nick pointed out, intended for use in small rifle rounds. However, it can also work in certain large cases as well, but only for certain things.

I've got an IMR 4227 load that throws a 350gr .45-70 bullet out at 2200fps. This is a max load worked up in, and only suitable for my Ruger No.3 carbine.

In a case like the .308 Win, you're going to hit the pressure wall well before you replicate the standard performance figures for that caliber. (meaning you'll max out with velocities several hundred fps lower than what is usual with more suitable powders.

Not an issue when looking for reduced power loads but unsuitable if you're looking to load "full power" ammo.

Properly done cast bullets do fine, and don't lead up into the 2000fps range, or even 2200fps, though going that fast with them may require gas checks.

If its leading, something isn't being done quite right.
If you're not shooting them at game, bullet velocity isn't critical, accuracy, and (in your case) reduced recoil is.

its tough to find data for reduced loads mostly because the load data tables are oriented to what most people are looking for, full performance level loads.
 
In the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition, it shows a 150 grain jacketed bullet loaded with IMR-4227. A starting load of 23.3 grains producing 2055 FPS and a Max load of 26.0 grains producing 2260 FPS.

I have plenty of IMR-4227
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Published data and powder on hand, what more do you need?
Velocity is in the range of standard .30-30, recoil probably less because most .308 rifles are heavier than most .30-30s.
 
I just tried out a load of IMR 4227 behind a 150 grain jacketed soft point and the recoil seemed less than a .30-.30. About what I was after. I didn't sight the gun in with this load, just shot at a small bucket off-hand and kneeling 10 times from about 40 yards. The bucket died and the gun didn't blow up. When I get time, I'll see how accurate it is.
 
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