Redding T7 press

B

blackswamp

Inactive
Anybody out there use a T7 press for precision reloading. I use a single stage press now but was thinking that I could leave my dies set up in a T7 press & maybe get a more precise reload. I wouldn't be changing dies all the time from 223 & 6.5 creedmoor & they would be set & ready to go when needed.

Is there much slop in the turret?

Thanks
Jeff
 
I'll start by saying I'm not a precision shooter, unless you count prairie dog hunting. I have hit p-dogs out to 500 yards with my bone stock AR (except the aftermarket trigger), and at the range with my handloads I regularly shoot 1-inch 5-shot groups at 200 yards. Whether that's precision shooting, I really don't know. I do know that once I started loading on my T7 I've doubled the number of prairie dogs I've hit beyond 400 yards. But that might be due to just becoming a better rifleman over the last year.

I reload all of my ammo on my T7. I got it last year for Xmas and have loaded at least 1200 rounds of .223 on it, along with a few thousand pistol caliber rounds. It does have a tiny bit of 'slop' at the top of the stroke, maybe a few thousandths or so. You could probably shim it or something to get rid of that, but it doesn't seem necessary for my purposes. The T7 seems built as tank-like or vault-like as humanly possible. At least that's my take, within my limited experience.

Hope that helps a little.
 
rangerrich99 pretty much hit that nail right on the head. What's "precision shooting"? My reloads are exceptionally accurate and I load off of a T7. I used to load off a single stage press and the loads I make now are every bit as accurate. However, I'm not competing at any world championship benchrest shoots. Woodchucks at 400-500 yards with a laser range finder are pretty common hits. What are you looking for?
 
Maybe the question is does anyone who shoot competitively use a T7? I doubt it. Most competitive shooters I know use a single stage


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I don't shoot competitively, but I do have a T7. I measured the "slop" when I first got it, but shrugged it off. A few thou, if I recall. But, whatever slop there is, it's consistent slop. Shoulder bump and COL are consistent from round to round.
 
There was a guy on here or maybe another forum that was having issues with the T7 consistently bumping the shoulder . He wanted .002 but sometimes got no set back resulting in tight chambering or out right failure to feed . I showed him these two picks of how most if not all presses have flex , stretch , deflection .

In both picks the dies was never readjusted and was first adjusted for the shell holder and die to barely touch when the ram was fully up . First is with an empty die no case , second is when sizing a case .

SN05Kz.jpg


h3j3Nj.jpg


As you can see there is a space left in between the die and shell holder when sizing the case . This can lead to inconsistently sized cases if some are work hardened more then others . In that case some cases will resist the sizing process more and cause more flex/deflection . If you are trying to bump your shoulders minimally that deflection could result in no bump at all .

Now you could just adjust the sizing die down more to force the die and shell holder to make hard contact . This will remove all flex and deflection issues . How ever when doing so with a standard shell holder the case is often sized down much shorter then that .002 you want/wanted . What you can do is place a shim in between the die and shell holder allowing them to make hard contact but still stay a few thousandths apart . I what I did was get a set on Redding competition shell holders that do the same thing in .002 increments . They allow your die and shell holder to make hard contact while simultaneously sizing your cases longer and longer by .002 .

I suggested the member try those with his T7 and when adjusted properly he said his cases come out perfectly sized every time . The sizing process is really the only thing that puts enough stress on the press to cause the deflection enough to be noticed . Auto dropping powder , seating the bullet or crimping just don't put enough stress on the press to cause measureable differences . So everything else will be consistent and gtg .

If you like , try this experiment . Screw your sizing die down to where it's just touching the shell holder with the ram fully up ( can't see any light between the two ) . Then place a properly lubed case in the shell holder and run it all the way into the die and stop . Now look and see if you now have a space in between the die and shell holder . If you do , you now know how much press deflection your press has .
 
What case, die and lube one uses would likely give different results on that test.

That said what is "precision" to the op? With properly prepared brass, decent components and rifle even ammunition loaded on a progressive will be sub MOA.

I have loaded 3/8 MOA ammunition on aluminum Lee single stage presses before.

I generally use a Forster co-ax if I am trying to get the last little bit but the dies make more difference than the press does really.
 
What case, die and lube one uses would likely give different results on that test.
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Absolutely ,small cases like the 223 I'm sure would put much less stress on the press then lets say 30-06 or bigger . In the pics above that is a 308 case being sized using sizing wax . The type of press will have a lot to do with it as well . Although that Hornady press in the pics is a "O" ring press . It still allows A LOT of deflection IMO . I believe it's less to do with the cast iron "O" ring part as it does with the linkage that is not all the stiff and robust .

So yes many factors go into why and how much press flex , stretch , deflection you get . The one thing that is for sure IMO is if your die and shell holder make hard contact when sizing . You will have more consistently sized cases regardless of lube , press or caliber .
 
The one thing that is for sure IMO is if your die and shell holder make hard contact when sizing . You will have more consistently sized cases regardless of lube , press or caliber .
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You know, I am not sure I have ever measured that but I can tell you that I have some rounds that are more accurate if you don't bottom out the size die.

Makes a big difference with one of my 22 hornets, will shoot 3/8" groups with the die backed up so the action will just close. Run the die down to the shell holder and group size will double or more.
 
Sorry may not have been clear . maybe this will help explain what I was trying to say :)

you said:
You know, I am not sure I have ever measured that but I can tell you that I have some rounds that are more accurate if you don't bottom out the size die.
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I'm not saying more accurate .I said more consistent .

Me said:
Now you could just adjust the sizing die down more to force the die and shell holder to make hard contact . This will remove all flex and deflection issues . How ever when doing so with a standard shell holder the case is often sized down much shorter then that .002 you want/wanted .
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To much head clearance in the chamber is likely why your accuracy drops and the reason backing your die off the shell holder results in a more accurate round . If you want to bump your shoulder back X amount . lets say .002 . When using a standard shell holder and you make hard contact , you end up bumping your shoulders .008 . That results in having to much head clearance , Meaning to much space in the chamber for the cartridge to move back and forth in . If this is the case you will need to adjust your die off the shell holder in order to size your cases longer and fit your chamber better/best . Once you do this though the press deflection now comes into play and you end up with less consistently sized cases .

Me said:
What I did was get a set on Redding competition shell holders ............... They allow your die and shell holder to make hard contact while simultaneously sizing your cases longer and longer by .002 .
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This has the effect of letting you size your cases to fit your chamber better/best while making hard contact between die and shell holder . All that is not to say you will have more accurate loads but you will have more consistently sized cases that "can" aid in accuracy for sure .
 
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I'm not saying more accurate .I said more consistent .
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I understood and was conceding that I had not tested for consistency in that area with various presses, just noting that one does not necessarily equal the other.
 
I measured deflection and alignment of my T-7 when it was fairly new, and compared it to my Rock Chucker. I don't remember the numbers, but they were essentially identical, other than the RC stretching while the T-7 deflects in a single direction.

At the target, it makes no difference that I can measure. The monkey behind the trigger is a bigger factor than the difference between my presses.

I much prefer loading on the T-7; but the RC still gets used (especially for bullet swaging, difficult case forming, or anything requiring the large diameter 1-1/4"-12 dies).

---

On the flip side...
My basement started getting sewage backed up in it on Monday.
As I rushed to get important things out of harm's way, I picked up an old Pacific press and put it on a box, but I left the Lyman T-mag and both Lee presses sitting on the floor -- because they're of little value to me (and I never use them, because they're inconsistent, misaligned, and sloppy as all get-out).
 
The monkey behind the trigger is a bigger factor than the difference between my presses.
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That's the case with a lot of presses.
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I agree, I have not found a way to pry a reloader from the keyboard. I would think there would be a way to create a curiosity. I have never found it necessary to purchased Redding Competition shell holders; I have always adjusted the die off of the shell holder with feeler gages.. Again: I have one 30/06 chamber that is .002" longer than a field reject length gage from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face. When sizing cases for that chamber I adjust the die off of the shell holder .014" and then neck up 280 Remington cases to 30/06 cases with .014" added between the shoulder of the case to the case head. Thing about it:confused:, the Reddding competition shell holder is .004" short meaning I need a deck height of .014". And then I do more work with short chambers meaning the Redding competition shell holder does not go less than .000 below .125".

Don't misunderstand, I have one set of Redding Competition shell holders, I paid $5.00 for the set, I do not use it but I have it just in case. I just can not get all gigglie or bubbly over the Redding shell holders.

Deflection and alignment: When I do not have my Rock Chucker under a load (No case in the shell holder) the ram deflects. The Rock Chucker ram is kicked forward when the ram is raised without a case in the shell holder. There is a reason, when the ram is raised the toggle linkage gets tangled up under the press. When this happens the ram is kicked back, because the ram is solid and one piece when the ram is kicked back at the bottom the top has no choice but to be kicked forward.

I know:confused::confused::confused:, it seems the press would get some hour glass ware but when the press is used under a load (case in the shell holder) the press is aligned.

That brings up back to getting the reloader to back away from the keyboard long enough to crawl under the bench to make their own observation. All of my Rock Chuckers have a shiny little spot at the point of contact.

I have given my Rock Chuckers a work out, the one thing I do not do is but them into a major bind at the bottom of the stroke. That is the reason I do not insist on sizing cases that have more resistance to sizing than my presses can overcome.

And then there is the 'spread out the work'; I have 11 Herter presses, all of my Herter presses cam over. When it comes to heavy work I have the 'U' press, the two ram press and the 6 hole turret. When putting pain on one of my presses I reach for the 'no neame lube' because no matter how hard headed I am when shoving a case into a press I know I am going to have to dig the case put before I move to the next case

And then there are dies, I have dies that insist on keeping every case, I have always felt the dies were/are a mistake but just in case they are super duper small base dies that no one knows about I keep them separated from other dies. I have 2 30/06 sets that that have full length sizing dies that measure .464" at the opening. Meaning? When sizing a 30/06 case with a diameter of .470 I am reducing the case head .006". I know, that does not seem like a problem to most but the case head is sold, some of my 30/06 case heads are .200" thick from the cup above the web to the case head and others that are .260" thick from the cup above the web to the case head. The .260" case heads have more resistance to sizing when using a small base die.

I have small base dies, I have BAR dies, when it comes to sizing the case head my small base dies only hint at reducing the diameter of the case head.

F. Guffey
 
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