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- Thread starter gaaucoin
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Limnophile
New member
Heavy for caliber is the way to go, so that's 180-gr for .40 S&W. Get a premium 180-gr JHP for carry, and for practice use a 180-gr FMJ the has equivalent exterior ballistics so your POI and recoil are the same. You'll likely find equivalent exterior ballistics, for example, in the Federal Premium 180-gr HST JHP and the Federal American Eagle 180-gr FMJ. In fact, they are very close: http://www.federalpremium.com/products/compare/handgun_compare.aspx. Muzzle velocity differs by only 1%, but, most importantly, there is no discernible difference in trajectory out to at least 50 yd.
Be sure to perform a reliability test of your desired carry ammo in your carry piece before you commit to it.
Be sure to perform a reliability test of your desired carry ammo in your carry piece before you commit to it.
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marine6680
New member
180gr hollowpoints from any of the big name manufactures... you should be good to go.
The more modern designs, like the Federal HST, are the best. Speer Gold dots, Winchester PDX1, the Critical line from Hornady, all good options as well.
Always test your choice in your pistol to ensure good function. At least a box or two... Sometimes, some pistols don't like some ammo.
If you find the pistol shoots the ammo well, then you are set... if it has function issues, then choose another brand and try again.
The more modern designs, like the Federal HST, are the best. Speer Gold dots, Winchester PDX1, the Critical line from Hornady, all good options as well.
Always test your choice in your pistol to ensure good function. At least a box or two... Sometimes, some pistols don't like some ammo.
If you find the pistol shoots the ammo well, then you are set... if it has function issues, then choose another brand and try again.
THANKS for the recommendations
Hey;
Youse are OK...lots of good advice...it's more than likely evident from my question...I'm pretty much a new kid at this stuff. I'm kinda OK with firearms in general sort of knowledge, but the technical stuff is still way over my head...I consider your responses very valuable.
Now, what can you tell me about 'frangible ammunition"? It seems very inexpensive by comparison. SinterFire is a brand I've seen at $32.00 a box of 50...seems a good price, but I don't care to scrifice performance for a few dollars.
Thanks again,
Garfield
Hey;
Youse are OK...lots of good advice...it's more than likely evident from my question...I'm pretty much a new kid at this stuff. I'm kinda OK with firearms in general sort of knowledge, but the technical stuff is still way over my head...I consider your responses very valuable.
Now, what can you tell me about 'frangible ammunition"? It seems very inexpensive by comparison. SinterFire is a brand I've seen at $32.00 a box of 50...seems a good price, but I don't care to scrifice performance for a few dollars.
Thanks again,
Garfield
I really like Underwood stuff. When I start handloading I will be trying to emulate their loads. They use a Speer 180 grain for their bonded jacketed hollow points and their prices are reasonable. https://www.underwoodammo.com/40-s-w-180-grain-bonded-jacketed-hollow-point/
marine6680
New member
Frangible ammo is highly debated.
Most Frangible ammo does not pass the FBI tests used to test the performance of defensive ammo. (ammo designed to stop threats)
The requirements are 12-18in of penetration in calibrated ballistic gel, both bare and when covered with 4 layers of extra heavy denim. Most feel the optimum is 15in of penetration in these tests.
The minimum is to ensure enough penetration to hit vital areas, the max is to limit over penetration of the target. The denim is to make sure the bullets function properly even when the target is wearing lots of clothing. (think winter)
Frangible ammo does not pass these tests, but the manufacturers claim other benefits.
While these benefits may or may not exist... There are no studies or tests to back up the claims. The only thing that is known... Is that the current testing standards work, as they are based on years of study by experts in many fields.
Basically, pistol rounds do not carry enough energy and velocity to take advantage of secondary wounding sources. Namely fluid cavitation that causes tissues to stretch past their elastic point, causing them to rip/tear, which means added damage.
A pistol bullet can only rely on direct contact damage... As in, the damage the bullet causes directly by ripping/cutting/crushing the tissues it comes into direct contact with.
So with a pistol round, good aim and reliable penetration are what you want... Modern hollow points deliver that.
In summary...
FMJ bullets penetrate very well... Too well in fact, at over 30 inches in most cases. They also offer less wounding ability, as they punch cleanly through and do little damage other than a straight hole. They work fine if your aim is good, but the potential for pass through of the target is very high.
Hollow points penetrate the right amount, the good ones anyway, and their expanding design allows for more wounding ability. Good aim is still a requirement.
Frangibles penetrate less, but have larger wound tracks. They may or may not penetrate bone well enough to work, and they may not reach vital areas on less than optimum shot angles. Due to these things, even with good aim, the bullet may not do a good job.
As was said before... Test you chosen rounds in your pistol. Enough for you to be comfortable that it works well in your pistol. For general practice use FMJ.
Cycle though your carry ammo on occasion, how often is your call, as it's good to practice with it from time to time. Another reason, is that repeated loading of the same bullet into the pistol's chamber, can cause the bullet to push deeper into the case, which causes increases in pressure when fired... Potentially damaging the gun, you, or someone else unintended. So if you have unloaded and reloaded the same bullet several times, retire it for range use later or put it in the bottom of the mag, and shoot it when you cycle through your ammo at some point. Well made ammo shouldn't have much issue, but things happen... So I avoid unloading my carry or defensive pistols unless absolutely necessary.
Most importantly...
Enjoy the sport.
Most Frangible ammo does not pass the FBI tests used to test the performance of defensive ammo. (ammo designed to stop threats)
The requirements are 12-18in of penetration in calibrated ballistic gel, both bare and when covered with 4 layers of extra heavy denim. Most feel the optimum is 15in of penetration in these tests.
The minimum is to ensure enough penetration to hit vital areas, the max is to limit over penetration of the target. The denim is to make sure the bullets function properly even when the target is wearing lots of clothing. (think winter)
Frangible ammo does not pass these tests, but the manufacturers claim other benefits.
While these benefits may or may not exist... There are no studies or tests to back up the claims. The only thing that is known... Is that the current testing standards work, as they are based on years of study by experts in many fields.
Basically, pistol rounds do not carry enough energy and velocity to take advantage of secondary wounding sources. Namely fluid cavitation that causes tissues to stretch past their elastic point, causing them to rip/tear, which means added damage.
A pistol bullet can only rely on direct contact damage... As in, the damage the bullet causes directly by ripping/cutting/crushing the tissues it comes into direct contact with.
So with a pistol round, good aim and reliable penetration are what you want... Modern hollow points deliver that.
In summary...
FMJ bullets penetrate very well... Too well in fact, at over 30 inches in most cases. They also offer less wounding ability, as they punch cleanly through and do little damage other than a straight hole. They work fine if your aim is good, but the potential for pass through of the target is very high.
Hollow points penetrate the right amount, the good ones anyway, and their expanding design allows for more wounding ability. Good aim is still a requirement.
Frangibles penetrate less, but have larger wound tracks. They may or may not penetrate bone well enough to work, and they may not reach vital areas on less than optimum shot angles. Due to these things, even with good aim, the bullet may not do a good job.
As was said before... Test you chosen rounds in your pistol. Enough for you to be comfortable that it works well in your pistol. For general practice use FMJ.
Cycle though your carry ammo on occasion, how often is your call, as it's good to practice with it from time to time. Another reason, is that repeated loading of the same bullet into the pistol's chamber, can cause the bullet to push deeper into the case, which causes increases in pressure when fired... Potentially damaging the gun, you, or someone else unintended. So if you have unloaded and reloaded the same bullet several times, retire it for range use later or put it in the bottom of the mag, and shoot it when you cycle through your ammo at some point. Well made ammo shouldn't have much issue, but things happen... So I avoid unloading my carry or defensive pistols unless absolutely necessary.
Most importantly...
Enjoy the sport.
Hornady "Critical Duty" met all 12 requirements of the CIA. I moved to that round from the earlier Hornady "Critical Defense" round that only met 8 requirements of the CIA. When utilized in self-defense, it will travel through most fabric and bone before it begins to open. Hollow points will begin coming apart with fabric and bone. It's all about protecting yourself, your loved ones, and innocent bystanders in our crime/terrorism environment. My pocket holster contains a Ruger LC9S with Crimson Laser. I pray I never have to pull it from my pocket in a life/death situation...but would!
You should try out the Hornady American Gunner 180 gr 40 S&W with their XTP JHP bullet. The main difference between the Hornady American Gunner and the Hornady "Custom" loads is the packaging used and price point they are offered at. Both feature the same XTP bullet at the same velocity specification. The American-Gunner ammunition is loaded in higher quantities which allows it to be distributed at a slightly lower price than their "Custom" offering. This is a fact, it came straight from Hornady.
Cosmodragoon
New member
gaaucoin, you've got some good advice here but it would also help to know what type of gun you're using. I might not choose the same stuff for a tiny polymer gun that I would for a full-sized steel gun. Regardless, I'd remind anyone just wading into this stuff to keep a focus on the basics.
I've seen so much debate, here and elsewhere, about what is "the best" caliber or weight in caliber for defense. It can be pretty interesting but I think a lot of it ends up being academic. Hitting the same relevant stuff in a self-defense scenario, the practical difference between 155 grains and 180 grains--or even between quality ammo in 9mm and .40--probably won't make or break the situation. What will is being able hit that stuff!
I think the best advice here is to avoid gimmicks. Find quality hollow-points that function well in your gun and that you can shoot well. Try to find a less expensive practice round with similar characteristics. Stock up and practice regularly. I try to stay fresh with my defensive ammo by keeping it fresh in my magazines. Every other month or so, I shoot out whatever pricey ammo I've been carrying around.
I've seen so much debate, here and elsewhere, about what is "the best" caliber or weight in caliber for defense. It can be pretty interesting but I think a lot of it ends up being academic. Hitting the same relevant stuff in a self-defense scenario, the practical difference between 155 grains and 180 grains--or even between quality ammo in 9mm and .40--probably won't make or break the situation. What will is being able hit that stuff!
I think the best advice here is to avoid gimmicks. Find quality hollow-points that function well in your gun and that you can shoot well. Try to find a less expensive practice round with similar characteristics. Stock up and practice regularly. I try to stay fresh with my defensive ammo by keeping it fresh in my magazines. Every other month or so, I shoot out whatever pricey ammo I've been carrying around.
cougar gt-e
New member
The OP said "carry", my mind goes to a vision of a 3-3.5" barrel and the need for rounds made for expansion at slower velocities.
gold dot short barrel either 165 or 180gr
gold dot short barrel either 165 or 180gr
Brotherbadger
New member
Yup, great advice. Any of their major names will do well.
EveryCaliber
New member
There are many good choices out there, but the 180 gr Federal HST is my choice after much research. They are really hard to beat.