I'm thinking of taking some precision marksmanship/fieldcraft/tracking courses (quick, what does that translate into after eliminating the PC language?) and need a good rifle. Although I love the M1A (esp. the Scout/Sniper), I'm not sure if it's appropriate for this type of training. So, I'm looking for a .308 bolt action MOA capable, with a good scope. Hopefully, I can keep it under $1,500.
Recommendations for tactical rifle?
- Thread starter buzz_knox
- Start date
Legionnaire
New member
Buzz, just completed a long range rifle course at Storm Mountain. Except for the specialized Armament Technology and other high end specialty pieces, most of the guns there were Remington 700 variants (VS, VSSF, PSS, etc.), with the occasional Savage. They were all plenty accurate for the course.
You will need a good mil dot scope. Most of the scopes there were Leupold 30mm tube scopes, like the VX-III Long Range Tactical 3.5-10X M1 and M3. The instructors preferred the M3 (1 MOA clicks) versus the M1 (1/4 MOA clicks), although I made it through with my M1.
Importantly, you need to make sure you have a boatload of vertical adjustment ABOVE zero. So a 20 MOA base like the one from Badger Arms should be seriously considered. You'll need close to 40 MOA above zero to get out to 1000 yards.
Let us know what you decide on.
You will need a good mil dot scope. Most of the scopes there were Leupold 30mm tube scopes, like the VX-III Long Range Tactical 3.5-10X M1 and M3. The instructors preferred the M3 (1 MOA clicks) versus the M1 (1/4 MOA clicks), although I made it through with my M1.
Importantly, you need to make sure you have a boatload of vertical adjustment ABOVE zero. So a 20 MOA base like the one from Badger Arms should be seriously considered. You'll need close to 40 MOA above zero to get out to 1000 yards.
Let us know what you decide on.
www.glock19.com
New member
I'll second the Savage they are very good shooters more accurate than the 700s on average in my experiece.
They do come with sucky trigers but there are after market ones out there or any gunsmith worthy of the name can do a decent trigger job on one.
They do come with sucky trigers but there are after market ones out there or any gunsmith worthy of the name can do a decent trigger job on one.
If you are looking for a good rifle out of the box that you don't have to sink anymore money into then get either the 700P or the 700VS. The P has a different stock which is a little heavier tactical style and the finish is a little different but other than that they are the same. The Savages are just as accurate but you have to replace the stock and trigger because to put it mildly they are crap. Also if you look to further customize in the future the Remington is a better platform to use. One more thing is that there are alot more tactical add ons for the Remington because they are so widely used in the tactical community. The rifle should run about $750 tops for the 700P and about $550-$600 for the 700VS.
As for scopes, the Leupold LR models with mildots are top notch. The M3 elevation is easier to keep track of in the field but it's 1 MOA adjustments and you have to get your round to track right for the dial. The M1 might be a better choice if you're looking for pin point accuracy with it's 1/4 MOA elevation adjustments. Both run about $730 but you'll never need another.
The 20 MOA base is a good thing to have so you don't top out your elevation even though you probably won't with either of the above scopes. The best advice I can give you is don't skimp on the mount and rings. Get a set of Badgers Ordnance or Leupold Mark 4s. They are both excellent and will serve you well. Don't put that great scope on a great rifle with a $15 set of cheap rings and mount. You'll hate yourself.
If you get the 700VS and Leupold LR with Badgers it should run you right around $1500 and you'll have a great set up.
As for scopes, the Leupold LR models with mildots are top notch. The M3 elevation is easier to keep track of in the field but it's 1 MOA adjustments and you have to get your round to track right for the dial. The M1 might be a better choice if you're looking for pin point accuracy with it's 1/4 MOA elevation adjustments. Both run about $730 but you'll never need another.
The 20 MOA base is a good thing to have so you don't top out your elevation even though you probably won't with either of the above scopes. The best advice I can give you is don't skimp on the mount and rings. Get a set of Badgers Ordnance or Leupold Mark 4s. They are both excellent and will serve you well. Don't put that great scope on a great rifle with a $15 set of cheap rings and mount. You'll hate yourself.
If you get the 700VS and Leupold LR with Badgers it should run you right around $1500 and you'll have a great set up.
Green Republican
New member
My vote goes for the Savage 10FP with a Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x40 M1 Tactical Scope, although you can't go wrong with a Remington 700. I just prefer the thinner stock, but I may be in the minority.
Ankle, it's not that the stock is thin in external dimensions, it's about the same dimensions as the 700VS stock, it's that it's very flimsy and cheaply made as compared to the very good HS Precision stock on the 700VS. If you ad the cost of getting a decent stock and trigger on the Savage then it actually costs more than the VS. The 700 VS is a very good starter rifle. That's what my custom used to be about 8 years ago before all the work.
I started a thread about a makeover of a Savage 110FP Long Action on a different board. This is what I was advised on, diffenently a new stock...I had already purchased the Chaote Tool Ultimate Varmint Stock. The stock is heavy, very well made and free floats the barrel completely. Work the triger over to start with Brownells Action Magic II and it the triger is not what you want either adjust it or replace it with a Jewel or Timney and believe it or not....most adviced to get the Tasco SS 10x42 scope.
Well, I haven't gotten to the trigger or the scope yet but so far so good
I was also advise to buy the 110FP for the longer action and it could later be made into larger calibers...it wont my me
and a bit of added weight and the larger recoil lug.
you may want to check out http://assaultweb.net/ubb/Forum12/HTML/201915.html
Good Luck
Karsten
Well, I haven't gotten to the trigger or the scope yet but so far so good
I was also advise to buy the 110FP for the longer action and it could later be made into larger calibers...it wont my me
and a bit of added weight and the larger recoil lug. you may want to check out http://assaultweb.net/ubb/Forum12/HTML/201915.html
Good Luck
Karsten
Buzz one word of advice...DO NOT GET A TASCO SS SCOPE!! I had two. One broke and the other was on the way. If TShoes get's in on this post he will tell you about his 3 that went south. Buy the Leupold and you will never have to worry about getting another. No matter what rifle you get don't get the Tasco. Karsten this advice goes for you too.
Legionnaire
New member
Agree with Rob01. Get a good scope. Leupolds are probably the most widely used in the "tactical" comunity. In my opinion, the VX-III LRTs (M1 or M3) are plenty, and I prefer the variable scope to the fixed power Mark IVs. Too many occasions when field-of-view is more important than magnification. If you plan to do in-close precision work, the M1 is probably the ticket.
Doing research on scopes, though, I've also read good things about I.O.R. tactical scopes. Check out http://www.valdada.com. Good glass, at a price less expensive than the Leupolds. But please, do stay away from the Tasco . . .
Doing research on scopes, though, I've also read good things about I.O.R. tactical scopes. Check out http://www.valdada.com. Good glass, at a price less expensive than the Leupolds. But please, do stay away from the Tasco . . .
ALWAYS GAME FOR A RIFLE DEBATE!
Not to knock the Savage....................BUT, if you are going to shoot tac, prone, field, DO NOT get a Savage.
The stock will beat you to death.........I mean literally beat you, and there are no GOOD replacements I know of out there.
The Rem VS, or the PSS, is NO better............if you get one of these, make sure you order a pad from H S Precision.......and have it installed, or do it yourself.
On the scopes, no need to beat a dead horse.......but, IF you aren't a reloader, and have a chrono, do NOT get an M3.........
Your ammo will not track with it...............without a special dial, and then if the temp swings 30-50 degrees, you will be SOL.
M3, is a better tac scope, BUT, not practical for non reloaders.
Not to knock the Savage....................BUT, if you are going to shoot tac, prone, field, DO NOT get a Savage.
The stock will beat you to death.........I mean literally beat you, and there are no GOOD replacements I know of out there.
The Rem VS, or the PSS, is NO better............if you get one of these, make sure you order a pad from H S Precision.......and have it installed, or do it yourself.
On the scopes, no need to beat a dead horse.......but, IF you aren't a reloader, and have a chrono, do NOT get an M3.........
Your ammo will not track with it...............without a special dial, and then if the temp swings 30-50 degrees, you will be SOL.
M3, is a better tac scope, BUT, not practical for non reloaders.
700PSS Shooter
New member
Remington 700PSS
Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10X40LR M3 w/mil-dots
Badger base and rings. You will be well served.
Savage tacticals are cheap, but tactical bases, replacement stocks are limited, however options are increasing.
I had the Tasco SS10X42, no problems at all here or with any of the people who went in on the purchase. It is the only Tasco I would even consider. Only sold it to a friend when offered a deal I could not refuse and then bought the Leupold M3.
Then again, I did not parachute into the range, crawl over 2 miles of jungle, sit in 48 hours of rain for the shot, or sling the rifle/scope in and out of a cruiser for weeks on end.
Remember: YMMV ...or your mileage may vary. Choose wisely.
Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10X40LR M3 w/mil-dots
Badger base and rings. You will be well served.
Savage tacticals are cheap, but tactical bases, replacement stocks are limited, however options are increasing.
I had the Tasco SS10X42, no problems at all here or with any of the people who went in on the purchase. It is the only Tasco I would even consider. Only sold it to a friend when offered a deal I could not refuse and then bought the Leupold M3.
Then again, I did not parachute into the range, crawl over 2 miles of jungle, sit in 48 hours of rain for the shot, or sling the rifle/scope in and out of a cruiser for weeks on end.
Remember: YMMV ...or your mileage may vary. Choose wisely.
make me a offer
wanting to try a AR10T
Pss Ltr
308 Cal DM .
Harris Bipod BR, Bench Rest 6-9" Leg Height
SS10x42 10x42 Matte Finish, Rear Parallax Adjustment, 30mm, Mil-Dot Reticle W/ BC Flip ups
Mounting Solutions Plus BREM700-T Steel
X-ThickTwo Piece Remington 700 Bases
Leupold's Mark 4 rings
Timney Trigger
set at 2 3/4 lb.
GrandPa
wanting to try a AR10T
Pss Ltr
308 Cal DM .
Harris Bipod BR, Bench Rest 6-9" Leg Height
SS10x42 10x42 Matte Finish, Rear Parallax Adjustment, 30mm, Mil-Dot Reticle W/ BC Flip ups
Mounting Solutions Plus BREM700-T Steel
X-ThickTwo Piece Remington 700 Bases
Leupold's Mark 4 rings
Timney Trigger
set at 2 3/4 lb.
GrandPa
Actually the Savage 10FP SA I bought for $350 (original stock) is more accurate than my Remington 700PSS. I love both. But know I got the Choate sniper/target stock on my Savage, so I love my Savage more due to the accuracy got even better. Here are some of my numbers:
92M- .00"-.50"
182M- 0.55"-0.72"
275M- 0.78"-1.00"
My Savage is still O.G. stock, except the Choate stock which I put on it and bought-it for $107 and Scope and bipod. The total price for the Savage package was $550, not bad at all.
92M- .00"-.50"
182M- 0.55"-0.72"
275M- 0.78"-1.00"
My Savage is still O.G. stock, except the Choate stock which I put on it and bought-it for $107 and Scope and bipod. The total price for the Savage package was $550, not bad at all.
ohen cepel
New member
Can't really bring anything new to the table on the weapons.
But I will second the comments about the glass. Buy the best you can afford! It will last forever (even if you are not happy with the weapon) and serve you well.
But I will second the comments about the glass. Buy the best you can afford! It will last forever (even if you are not happy with the weapon) and serve you well.
I looked at a stealth when i went to pick up my 700P. Side by side they look just identical (except for the obviously different saftey mechanism). Both have the same HS Precision wide forearm stock with palm swells. The stealth was a few bucks cheaper if i remember rightly. Dont really know all that much about the model 70 though except for the fact that it has a full length claw extractor.
teufelmann55
New member
Depends on your "tactical" requirements:
Multiple target engagments with MOA accuracy or thereabouts to w/in 1000 yds-perhaps a semi auto-M1A NM, AR-10T or something to that effect.
For more precise work against a very limited amount of targets out to 1000yds a bolt action of some form.
If you are looking more towards battlefield distance a highly modified AR-15 will be somewhat decent to w/in 600 yds.
These are suggestions, granted in military calibers. It all depends on what your requirements are.
Multiple target engagments with MOA accuracy or thereabouts to w/in 1000 yds-perhaps a semi auto-M1A NM, AR-10T or something to that effect.
For more precise work against a very limited amount of targets out to 1000yds a bolt action of some form.
If you are looking more towards battlefield distance a highly modified AR-15 will be somewhat decent to w/in 600 yds.
These are suggestions, granted in military calibers. It all depends on what your requirements are.