Recoil spring testers
- Thread starter cw308
- Start date
Bill DeShivs
New member
I think if your gun works, the recoil spring is fine.
It's only job is to put the slide back into battery.
It's only job is to put the slide back into battery.
cw, what Bill said. I've replaced about a zillion recoil springs just because, experimented with different weights, buffers,etc,etc. But I can't say I ever actually needed to replace a recoil spring. Not even once. I have never had a pistol of any description start malfunctioning, then suddenly quit malfunctioning when I replaced the recoil spring......ymmv
I guess I'm just a good consumer, trying to do my part in keeping the economy strong by purchasing all those unneeded recoil springs over the years
I guess I'm just a good consumer, trying to do my part in keeping the economy strong by purchasing all those unneeded recoil springs over the years
Walt Sherrill
New member
If you get a spring tester, what will you do with it? If a tested spring shows that it's measured resistance has dropped a pound or two, but the gun still runs properly, do you replace it?
Different weight springs don't seem to make that much difference in how most guns run, within a certain spring weight range. Back when I was shooting mostly full-size CZs, I would try recoil springs from 10 lbs. to 20 lbs. and they'd all do the job. I think I even tried a variable-rate spring once. The "felt-recoil" was subtly different from spring to spring but the guns still worked. Shooting the gun periodically (if it's not used a lot) makes more sense, for as long as the gun functions properly the spring is arguably good.
If you're concerned that your gun might poop out on you at a critical moment, then routinely changing the springs every X number of rounds (x= what makes you feel comfortable) is an option. That's expensive and generally unnecessary, but not terribly costly to do so. If the gun just sets most of the time in a safe or drawer, you'll probably wear out long before the recoil spring does.
As Bill DeShivs says, the recoil spring's job is to put the slide back into battery -- and that means the spring must store enough of the recoil force from the prior shot to strip a round from the mag and properly chamber it. John M. Browning, in the 1911 Patent document, called that spring a REACTION SPRING -- he didn't call it a recoil spring. The spring is not there to MANAGE or REDUCE RECOIL or protect the gun: it's there to make it run as it's supposed to run.
Different weight springs don't seem to make that much difference in how most guns run, within a certain spring weight range. Back when I was shooting mostly full-size CZs, I would try recoil springs from 10 lbs. to 20 lbs. and they'd all do the job. I think I even tried a variable-rate spring once. The "felt-recoil" was subtly different from spring to spring but the guns still worked. Shooting the gun periodically (if it's not used a lot) makes more sense, for as long as the gun functions properly the spring is arguably good.
If you're concerned that your gun might poop out on you at a critical moment, then routinely changing the springs every X number of rounds (x= what makes you feel comfortable) is an option. That's expensive and generally unnecessary, but not terribly costly to do so. If the gun just sets most of the time in a safe or drawer, you'll probably wear out long before the recoil spring does.
As Bill DeShivs says, the recoil spring's job is to put the slide back into battery -- and that means the spring must store enough of the recoil force from the prior shot to strip a round from the mag and properly chamber it. John M. Browning, in the 1911 Patent document, called that spring a REACTION SPRING -- he didn't call it a recoil spring. The spring is not there to MANAGE or REDUCE RECOIL or protect the gun: it's there to make it run as it's supposed to run.
Thanks Guy's for getting back . I shoot my Colt New Agent 45acp once a week 50 rounds. I read a lot & talk on this forum on every subject , great conversations . The thought of testing your recoil spring with a tester came from an article I read on a crack in a frame do to a weak recoil spring . I love shooting my 3" 1911an with a compact 45 I'm sure adds to a possible problem happening sooner . I guess I'm babying the gun . I guess when the cases eject further away then normal may be a sign to change the spring . Just want to catch it before I beat the heck out of the frame . I carry this gun , never sees the inside of my safe an I shoot it often . I never knew you could tune the 1911 with a different weight spring , always learning new things , great forum . I Thank You All
Chris
Chris
I've shot for years and years without giving much thought to the recoil springs in my guns. Probably just lucky.
HOWEVER
When I joined this forum and started reading there's lots and lots and lots of discussion about recoil springs. So since we TALK about them so much why don't we actually DO something and measure them? Couldn't hurt.
I think a recoil spring tester could be a nifty thing. It wouldn't be for me but if a club or shooting range had one for members to use I'd probably use it just to see what all the fuss is about.
How much does one cost?
Thanks for posting this.
HOWEVER
When I joined this forum and started reading there's lots and lots and lots of discussion about recoil springs. So since we TALK about them so much why don't we actually DO something and measure them? Couldn't hurt.
I think a recoil spring tester could be a nifty thing. It wouldn't be for me but if a club or shooting range had one for members to use I'd probably use it just to see what all the fuss is about.
How much does one cost?
Thanks for posting this.
Kreyzhorse
New member
No.... I can't imagine it would ever be a good tool to have. Save your money and buy spare springs instead.
Not that I disagree with any of the excellent comments above, but I say if you have $40 to blow, why not buy it? I think it would be fascinating to know the actual weights of all the old springs I'm taking out and to verify all the new spring weights going in. Certainly such a gauge is not necessary for an amatuer and super novice smith like me, but it just adds to the fun of knowing. A few years ago I bought a NIB Lyman's digital trigger gauge at a gun show for cheap. I love checking all my vintage WWI & WWII vintage guns even if I have no plans to monkey with the triggers. I have fun with it. I don't need that gauge, but I want it.
Walt Sherrill
New member
The most important question remains unanswered: how much can a spring degrade before it must be replaced?
How do you measure that degradation? A set number of pounds of resistance lost, or some key percentage of stated weight? Or, maybe, a significant loss of total spring length over time from original (unused) length, or a decrease in length after the spring takes it's initial set. (Keep in mind, however, that all new springs will take a set after a week or two of use -- which is normal spring behavior considered in spring design and use in the gun.)
A lot of folks keep track of slide cycles -- and for some springs they replace them after maybe 4000 or 5000 rounds fired. For some guns that could be way to early, and for some other guns (especially sub-compact ones) the gun may quit running properly way before that many rounds have been fired. Which is why shooting the gun is often the best test.
When you call Brownells, ask them what they RECOMMEND for how you might use the tester.
How do you measure that degradation? A set number of pounds of resistance lost, or some key percentage of stated weight? Or, maybe, a significant loss of total spring length over time from original (unused) length, or a decrease in length after the spring takes it's initial set. (Keep in mind, however, that all new springs will take a set after a week or two of use -- which is normal spring behavior considered in spring design and use in the gun.)
A lot of folks keep track of slide cycles -- and for some springs they replace them after maybe 4000 or 5000 rounds fired. For some guns that could be way to early, and for some other guns (especially sub-compact ones) the gun may quit running properly way before that many rounds have been fired. Which is why shooting the gun is often the best test.
When you call Brownells, ask them what they RECOMMEND for how you might use the tester.
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Spring testers could be used for all kinds of springs, not just recoil spring.
Once a firearms collection has reached a certain point and there are enough springs from enough mods, it might become easy to forget what spring is what. I mean, after changing out a few dozen D springs, and then finding yourself rebuilding a used 92FS....wouldn't you want the best of the bunch going into it? For some it might not matter. But for others, that might make all the difference.
It seems to me that learning the science of what's what and why usually marks the difference between the casual layman and the enthusiast/professional.
I see this as just as valid as a desire to understand the precise makeup of powder mixture when making your own ammo. I'm just sorry I can't give a direct answer to the question.
Once a firearms collection has reached a certain point and there are enough springs from enough mods, it might become easy to forget what spring is what. I mean, after changing out a few dozen D springs, and then finding yourself rebuilding a used 92FS....wouldn't you want the best of the bunch going into it? For some it might not matter. But for others, that might make all the difference.
It seems to me that learning the science of what's what and why usually marks the difference between the casual layman and the enthusiast/professional.
I see this as just as valid as a desire to understand the precise makeup of powder mixture when making your own ammo. I'm just sorry I can't give a direct answer to the question.
Walt Sherrill
New member
Prndll said:
If I'm rebuilding a gun, I'm going to be doing it with NEW springs -- not used ones. How do you know whether the "best of the bunch" is good enough?
I can see where a tester could be good when used as a go/no go spring gauge, but you still need to know the range of resistance that will work for a given gun design. If you know that acceptable operating range, the spring tester might be useful.
My handgun collection is modest -- 18 semi-autos. But even that can be confusing. (I'm not a collector, so "collection" is the proper name for what I've got. I just have guns I like. They're not investments.)
I try to keep new springs in the bag/envelope they arrive in until they're installed. And if the spring being replaced hasn't failed -- i.e., is being changed for other reasons -- it'll go into the bag the new one came out of, and will be marked if it has a different rate than the spring that replaced it.
Having a spring tester might be interesting... but just finding the best of the bunch might be the same as finding the best of the worst.
Walt Sherrill
When I received the assembly it came ready to install , meaning , the spring was compressed and the take down pin tool in the guide rod . I removed the pin to inspect an noticed the spring was 1/2" shorter the the spare spring I ordered at the same time . I called thinking it was the wrong spring , they advised me it's do to the unit is stored an shipped ready to installed with the spring compressed . I keep records in my reloading note book , measured the compressed & spare spring lengths and coils
I will also check with Brownells on how the tool tested the spring . I would think as the spring weakens ,the cases will eject further away , before any feed problems . Will test for changes after every cleaning just to see , no big deal just want to see for myself how fast the spring weakens.
Thank You for answering my post and your input . Chris
When I received the assembly it came ready to install , meaning , the spring was compressed and the take down pin tool in the guide rod . I removed the pin to inspect an noticed the spring was 1/2" shorter the the spare spring I ordered at the same time . I called thinking it was the wrong spring , they advised me it's do to the unit is stored an shipped ready to installed with the spring compressed . I keep records in my reloading note book , measured the compressed & spare spring lengths and coils
I will also check with Brownells on how the tool tested the spring . I would think as the spring weakens ,the cases will eject further away , before any feed problems . Will test for changes after every cleaning just to see , no big deal just want to see for myself how fast the spring weakens.
Thank You for answering my post and your input . Chris
Prndll
I like to read up on the firearms I own and how to keep them in good running order , if the tool makes sense to me I'll try it . Just like I shoot benchrest 308 , people I shoot with always would say it not good letting your barrel get too hot , l would say what's to hot , they would go by feel . I read up on the subject an found an article on Accurate Shooters forum on barrel temperature , ordered a thermal strip that attaches to your barrel . I have one on my barrel , they come 10 to a pack . My friends don't feel their barrels anymore . That's just me , what , when , why & how.
Thanks for responding to my post , Chris
I like to read up on the firearms I own and how to keep them in good running order , if the tool makes sense to me I'll try it . Just like I shoot benchrest 308 , people I shoot with always would say it not good letting your barrel get too hot , l would say what's to hot , they would go by feel . I read up on the subject an found an article on Accurate Shooters forum on barrel temperature , ordered a thermal strip that attaches to your barrel . I have one on my barrel , they come 10 to a pack . My friends don't feel their barrels anymore . That's just me , what , when , why & how.
Thanks for responding to my post , Chris
The more I think of the spring tester the more I like it . When installing a new spring in your 1911 some may rock the gun more , slam the slide or recoil nice an smooth . With a spring tester I would think recording that information would be the only way to truly know . I guess you could buy different strength springs an test to tune your pistol also . I like the idea of checking the spring after cleaning , how much time would it take . I'll pick the tech's brain tomorrow at Brownells.
Chris
Chris
Bill DeShivs
New member
In my 47 years of using and working on guns-LOTS of guns, I have never replaced a recoil spring because it got weak. I did replace one that was in a fire.
Everyone has different ideas about springs, and when they ought to be replaced. Especially the people who sell springs.
That being the case, I would point out the US ARMY standard for the 1911A1 spring was length. Not cycles, round count, or any other measure beyond the standard bent(kinked), broken, rusted, cracked, torn, burnt, etc. Without visible physical damage the serviceability of the recoil spring was determined by its length.
I don't have the TM handy that I used in the 70s, but I do clearly remember that shorter than the specified length was unserviceable, (even if it worked fine..) and would be replaced.
I'm fairly confident that is also the case with the 9mm Beretta pistol in service now, though I can't say so from personal experience.
What can a spring tester tell you?? How many pounds it takes to compress the spring a given distance. Useful information, if you can compare it to the specs called for. But, does it have a practical value?
What I mean is, (first we assume the tester is correctly calibrated) what do you do with the information? If its supposed to be an "18lb spring" and the tester shows its really a 17lb spring, do you replace it?? Is it needful to replace it? What if it tests 12lbs but works flawlessly??
What ever compression weight measurement the spring is spec'd to be, WILL be well above what is needed to run the slide. So if you test your springs against "book value", when things differ, what do you do?
At the least, you'll have to make a choice you never would have had to make if you hadn't spent $40 on a spring tester!
That being the case, I would point out the US ARMY standard for the 1911A1 spring was length. Not cycles, round count, or any other measure beyond the standard bent(kinked), broken, rusted, cracked, torn, burnt, etc. Without visible physical damage the serviceability of the recoil spring was determined by its length.
I don't have the TM handy that I used in the 70s, but I do clearly remember that shorter than the specified length was unserviceable, (even if it worked fine..) and would be replaced.
I'm fairly confident that is also the case with the 9mm Beretta pistol in service now, though I can't say so from personal experience.
What can a spring tester tell you?? How many pounds it takes to compress the spring a given distance. Useful information, if you can compare it to the specs called for. But, does it have a practical value?
What I mean is, (first we assume the tester is correctly calibrated) what do you do with the information? If its supposed to be an "18lb spring" and the tester shows its really a 17lb spring, do you replace it?? Is it needful to replace it? What if it tests 12lbs but works flawlessly??
What ever compression weight measurement the spring is spec'd to be, WILL be well above what is needed to run the slide. So if you test your springs against "book value", when things differ, what do you do?
At the least, you'll have to make a choice you never would have had to make if you hadn't spent $40 on a spring tester!
Bill DeShivs
New member
How come nobody worries about their rifle recoil springs, or machine gun recoil springs?
You would think if they needed to be replace often, machine guns would require it.....
You would think if they needed to be replace often, machine guns would require it.....
It all comes down to a comparison between the spring being tested against the spring in the tester. Until the spring in the tester is compared to a constant weight.
What makes this information valuable? Well, why would I buy a new 12lb spring when my current spring measures 12lbs and shows no sign of wear or damage? Unless of course, I want an extra. Personally, I'd rather be dealing with people that are interested in details. It's not only a sign of professionalism, but is (for me anyway) part of what draws me into websites like this one. Should I change a spring that functions properly if it measures .5lbs weaker? Probably not. Can I find that if I'm going to run +P ammo, I might want to use a spring from this manufacturer instead of that one? Possibly. Do firearms manufacturers spend a great deal of money doing all these tests themselves and we are basically talking about reinventing the wheel? Quite likely.
Knowing exactly what's inside and what's not along with their specs and thresholds can mean something to enthusiasts/professionals. Especially if dealing with special, rare, or antique items. For soldiers on the battlefield or military armories....probably not so much.
What makes this information valuable? Well, why would I buy a new 12lb spring when my current spring measures 12lbs and shows no sign of wear or damage? Unless of course, I want an extra. Personally, I'd rather be dealing with people that are interested in details. It's not only a sign of professionalism, but is (for me anyway) part of what draws me into websites like this one. Should I change a spring that functions properly if it measures .5lbs weaker? Probably not. Can I find that if I'm going to run +P ammo, I might want to use a spring from this manufacturer instead of that one? Possibly. Do firearms manufacturers spend a great deal of money doing all these tests themselves and we are basically talking about reinventing the wheel? Quite likely.
Knowing exactly what's inside and what's not along with their specs and thresholds can mean something to enthusiasts/professionals. Especially if dealing with special, rare, or antique items. For soldiers on the battlefield or military armories....probably not so much.