rechambering 30-30 to 30-30AI

M

micksis86

New member
Hi,
I'm seriously considering rechambering my marlin 336 30-30 to 30-30 Ackley Improved. I'm wondering what would be involved in doing this?
Obvioulsy the barrel is already .308 so would it just be a case of a gunsmith recutting the chamber?
Thanks
 
Finding a gun smith that has the reamer for it will be the tricky part. Otherwise it's just reaming and checking the head space. So why you would do that is beyond me, you go from a 150 yard deer gun to a 160 yard deer gun and the most widespread ammo to a home-brew only.
 
Don't know where you are, but I'm almost 100% certain that Jim Fleming, at Fenris Wolf Arms in Red Oak, Oklahoma, can do this with little to no hassle. You might want to talk it over with him and see if it's a good move for you.

Disclosure: I'm not a representative of FWA, just a very satisfied customer.
 
I am not a gunsmith but I have a few AI guns and a few 30-30's. I reload for all of them. I think you would be giving up some reliability in a lever action by switching to the AI Version of the 30 WCF. The sloping body of the 30 WCF is made that way to function in a Lever action. The Lever action does not cam like a Bolt gun and you could have sticky extraction or even extraction problems. It could effect the feeding also.

The 30WCF can be boosted with careful handloading and bullet selection. Using a 130gr bullet will push your PBR farther.

A 30 WCF is a great cartridge and with good loads will take deer to 200yds. The gain in fps of the 30 WCF AI would not offset the reliability issues that could come up for me.

Now if you are talking about a Rem 788 or a Savage 340 bolt action 30-30. Or a single shot T/C, that would be a different matter all together.

I am sure there are a lot of people that will disagree with me but thats my 2 cents worth............The 336 is a good gun the way it came from the factory. If you want a flatter shooting lever action look into a savage 99 in 300 savage or 308 Win.
 
I see all your points I am a big fan of 30-30 my main reason was to give something different a go. I did imagine that the shape of the improved version would effect feeding. Maybe i'll leave it as is it is one hell of an accurate 30 WCF. Might leave it thanks for all your input.
I wouldn't think that a 200-300fps improvement in velocity would make the rifle a 150yard into a 160 yard.
 
My point was less in regards to the starting fps but to the fact that you're still shooting a flat tip bullet from a lever action gun. F-150 even with a 400 HP motor is still a truck and will never out run a corvette.
 
You can still shoot factory ammo in the AI chamber.


There's several guys on leverguns forum that have AI's. The discussion has come up a number of times, and you can get some real world info. I think the 200-300fps increase is a bit optomistic.

If you go to shootersforum, there's a guy named williamiorg thats done a lot of work and posted about it, with standard rounds, and the AI's, as well as the 307 and others. He's a wealth of info.

You can gain much of the difference between the standard 30-30 and the AI version with certain powders, and gain trajectory improvements with proper bullet selection (there's a difference in ballistics coefficients with various bullets available). When so loaded, the expensive leverevolution loads dont offer much real world improvement.
 
Thanks for all you opinions guys, you may be right that 200-300fps is optimistic but i'm just going off data that i've read.
Anyway i've opted to stick with the 30-30 I've taken the stance if it ain't broke don't fix it so i'm going to stick with the trusty old 30-30.
 
To get a true Ackley chamber you have to set the barrel back.
Click to expand...

An Ackley Improved chamber is a change in the chamber dimensions from the neck-to-shoulder junction back toward the head or rim. The neck-to-shoulder junction does not move. It does not require a barrel set-back if done correctly.

I have a .30-30 AI in a little NEF rifle. Of the AI chamberings whose parent cartridges have survived til today, the .30-30 is one of the most efficient and returned one of the best increases in velocity. Supposedly it is better than 10%. The brass lasts longer and I bought my .30-30 AI die set from RCBS.

AI is not the best or most cost effective treatment for every chambering. But in certain cartridges it can yield a big step in performance with little more than the cost of the reamer and a knowledgeable person to use it.

I would not AI all the chamberings in my safe, but I've never regretted this particular experiment with the .30-30.

Each chambering is a tale all it's own. Some AIs show increases in only one or two commercially available bullet weights. There is a different gain for each bullet weight in nearly every chambering that gets the AI treatment. Of course handloaders know that each load is a collection of variables, each of which may affect the result. The AI is just one more thing in the mix. I never heard of it hurting a rifle's performance, but it may not be worth the trouble in every instance.
 
An Ackley Improved chamber is a change in the chamber dimensions from the neck-to-shoulder junction back toward the head or rim. The neck-to-shoulder junction does not move. It does not require a barrel set-back if done correctly.
Click to expand...
Absolutely true. The reason most AI rechamberings get set back is because of most factory chambers being at maximum length and the person doing the rechambering wanting to completely clean up the chamber. But it is not necessary. I have seen several rechambers done by PO Ackley himself that did not completely clean up the chambers in the neck/shoulder junction area.
 
An Ackley Improved chamber is a change in the chamber dimensions from the neck-to-shoulder junction back toward the head or rim. The neck-to-shoulder junction does not move. It does not require a barrel set-back if done correctly.
Click to expand...

Try it.

You cannot remove the metal you need without at least touching the neck shoulder joint.

The 'go gauge' is the Ackley 'no-go.'

You may end up with something with a 40 degree shoulder, but it is NOT a correct AI chamber.

You need a crush headspace to ensure safety when firing factor non-AI ammunition, and you cannot get that without setting back before cutting.
 
on some cal. a full 1 turn set back is not needed ..the last .222 mag. i did only needed a 1/2 turn..witch was ok because it had no sights..i think some set back will be needed on all old chambers...but then again...........i"ve read Ackley made all AI so that factory ammo can still be safely fired in them...
 
The 30/30 Winchester and the 30/30 Ackley Improved are two different chambers and are not similar as with other improved chambers, the shoulder on the Ackley version is moved forward .150 thousands, the Ackley improved version has a case neck length of .350, .076 shorter than the 30/30. There is no need moving the barrel back to remove all of the chamber.

F. Guffey
 
30/30 Winchester tapper, 30/40 Krag tapper, 303 taper, 300 H&H and the reason why, that was the old days when there was a transition from black powder to smokeless, there were no options as to case capacity and burn rate, a larger case capacity offered no advantage and the tapper was easier to form, when we noticed the 7mm57 had less tapper and by that time DuPont snuck/sneaked across the Atlantic and went to work for a foreign smokeless powder company, then he snuck/sneaked back with the receipt and everyone was happy.

http://www.cowart.info/Florida History/Dupont/Dupont Biography.htm

F. Guffey
 
on some cal. a full 1 turn set back is not needed ..the last .222 mag. i did only needed a 1/2 turn..witch was ok because it had no sights.
Click to expand...

Many AIs can be done with less than a full turn of setback.

It is the presence of sights that often drives a full turn.

The problem is that for the original round to headspace correctly the shoulder must be re-cut.

If the chamber is so short it will not close on a 'go' gauge you might get there, but that means the chamber was incorrect to start with.
 
I had my TC carbine .30-30 barrel ackley improved some years ago and all i can say is do it- the result is revolutionary, esp when pointed bullets are used.

It also created a situation where my pointed 30-30 ammo could not be chambered in my lever action .30-30.

Now that you can get pointed bullets for lever guns improvement may not be so great.
 
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