Reasons for longer barrel - single shot / doubles vs. repeaters

U

Unlicensed Dremel

Moderator
OK, shotgun gurus, answer me this please... regarding wing shooting guns (as opposed to dedicated turkey rigs for example).

It's often said that the reason for longer barrels is "shootability" or "swingability" to get on target (in addition to weight/ balance) - nothing to do with extra velocity etc. - which I accept and buy into as fact.

But, putting weight/ balance to the side for the moment, must it be *barrel* length or is it the *overall length* of the long arm that matters in the "swingability & tracking" department?

In other words, let's suppose as a given that on average, a pump or semi-auto is two inches longer (overall) than a double or single shot (might be 3" or a little more, but let's just say 2" for the sake of argument).

So in that case, in the swingability department, all other things being equal (purpose, balance, etc), if a 28" bbl length is ideal for a single shot/ double, then wouldn't a 26" bbl length be ideal for a pump / semi? Or to change it slightly but ask the same question, if a 26" bbl length is ideal for a single shot / double for a given person & use, wouldn't a 24" bbl be ideal for a pump or semi?

If not, why not?

Thanks.
 
It's actually a throw back to BP guns. I don't think it has anything to do with swinging anything or anything to do with the action type.
Mind you, I don't hunt ducks(shot 2, long ago, in my first year as a hunter. Tasted horrible.) and I don't shoot skeet or trap.
 
Sight radius also comes into play - the longer the barrel the longer the sight radius. Lots of skeet shooters these days are using 28 and 30" barrels instead of the 26" that used to be common. Trap shooters have long loved longer barrels (34" in some cases).
 
Not all clay target games are the same --- in terms or how much left and right birds are thrown. But yes, in terms of overall length an Over Under with 30" barrels is about the same length as a pump or semi-auto with 28" barrels.

In general, Trap guns, tend to be heavier and longer because there isn't as much "swing" between the hold point and the target...so longer and heavier guns, for Trap, tend to help you with a longer sight plane...and in a smoother follow thru. In over under Trap guns - 32" barrels and a gun from 9.5 to 10 lbs is fairly common / in single barrel trap guns - they tend to be a little lighter, around 8.5 - 9 lbs and 34" barrel is common.

For all around guns ....for Skeet, Sporting Clays, 5 Stand and upland bird hunting ..most shooters will tend to want a little shorter gun ( say 28" or 30" in an Over Under and around 8 - 8.5 lbs )....they want a gun with enough weight that they get a smooth follow thru ..and long enough to get a decent sight plane.

Short and lighter guns ( 26" over unders at around 7 lbs )....most shooters will tend to "slap" at targets or yank them left or right ...vs staying smooth on follow thru ...short sight plane tends to not be as smooth for most of us. Most of us tend to refer to light and shorter guns as "whippy" ...which is not optimal.
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Personally I like an 8.5 lb O/U with 30" barrels for Skeet, Sporting clays, etc. ( and I stay with a 30" O/U in 12ga, a 20ga, a 28ga and a .410 ) at around 8.5 lbs.
For Trap I go to a 32" O/U at around 10 lbs...

If I want to shoot a real light gun ...like a 7 lb semi-auto Benelli super sport --- because its light / I like it with a 30" barrel ( equivalent overall length to a 32" O/U " to smooth out my swing and give me a longer sight plane.

But I'm 6 '5" and 290 lbs..../ my buddy who is a national ranked Skeet shooter ..( 98 avg or so )...likes a 28" O/U at around 10 lbs as his all around gun...
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So there are trends - but not one size fits all.
 
Remember in shotguns....the shot does not end when you pull the trigger...( you establish your lead....you pull the trigger - and you follow thru ). The end of the shot is the follow thru ....and it needs to be on the line of the bird or target ...as you complete the shot.

The follow thru is critical...and that completes the shot.

You used the term tracking ...and I understand your point ...but I will establish a lead on target / maintain a constant distance in front of target ( sustained lead )...staying on line and speed with target...then pull trigger...and maintain that target line and speed as bird dies..../

Then I shift my eyes ....find the next target in the air....and only then, do I move the gun to insert the barrel in front of that target....sustain the lead...pull trigger ..and follow thru again ( keeping my shoulders level - and on target as best I can )....and staying smooth / so the combination of weight of the gun ( and it has to be balanced / I don't want a gun that is nose heavy or butt heavy )...with the balance point in the receiver area not far forward of the trigger area ...in my view.

This all stays the same whether I'm shooting Skeet, Sporting Clays or live upland birds.../ while its a lot trickier at live birds that fly erratic like Quail or Doves...its real easy to see on a bird like a Pheasant because they don't dart right or left suddenly ....but even on fast birds like Quail - the fundamentals are all the same ...even if it takes me 2 shells to knock that bird down.

If I use a pump gun.....I maintain the gun in my shoulder and my face on the comb of the gun ....as I cycle the action / I don't drop it away from my face ...so I execute that action and stay with that target - just like I would with a semi-auto.

A 28" barrel on a pump gun ...is the shortest shotgun I will personally shoot own ....out of more than a dozen shotguns I own .../ but while that works for me / that won't work too well for my granddaughter that is 18 and 5'6" and 120 lbs.../ so I do keep some shorter or lighter guns around for the kids to shoot ( a Benelli Super Sport semi auto in a 20ga at 6 lbs with a 28" barrel is a really nice light gun for the younger or smaller folks in the family to shoot )....or even a 7 lb O/U in 28ga with 30" barrels is a good versatile gun for some of the young shooters...
 
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I am not sure it matters that much at all. If BigJimP has been taught on a 20" gun, he would now see no use for a barrel that is 30" long. If the gun is fit and balanced for the shooter, the barrel length does not matter as much. Longer barrels certainly swing smoother. Then again, I am the guy who will shoot a round of sporting clays with my 3Gun shotgun in 30 minutes and be off to do something else.
 
It's the fashion.
Guy goes to buy a new shotgun. He doesn't really think he needs a longer barrel, but everyone says to get a longer barrel. Better resale they say. Swings better they say. Harder to stop your swing, they say. He is about to plunk down his money and he is hesitant to spend his money unwisely; he falls in line and gets a longer barrel. As he shoots more, he shoots better. He is now one of them.
Buy a longer barrel they say.
I have been shooting shotguns for over 54 years now. I know what I like, and what I shoot well. I could care less what "they" say. Say 30 years ago, I think I did care.
 
Part of it does come from the old days, longer barrels meant more power.

Part of it is the longer barrel has more weight "out there" at the end than a shorter one (on the same action) which does aid in follow through. Its about weight distribution of a particular gun.

I understand you saying pumps/semis being 2" longer for the sake of an easy number, but the reality is closer to 4-5" longer than a break action with an equal barrel length (actual difference depends on specific guns, but pumps/semis have to be at least the length of the longest shell chambered, longer than the break action, plus a little bit. SO, a pump will be 3" or more (at least) longer than a double with the same barrel length.

must it be *barrel* length or is it the *overall length* of the long arm that matters in the "swingability & tracking" department?
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Its a bit of both, but only the barrel length matters, IF you are sticking with one action style. In other words, if a pump, then a 24,26, 28, 30" barrel is what makes the difference. The same with a double, but again, only when you stick with the same action.

ITs the weight distribution. Essentially all are going to be the same from the buttplate to the trigger(s), its the rest of the gun where the weight balance is different between the pump/semi and the break action.

I don't think tis a linear thing, (using your 2") to make the barrels "equal" between the pump and double. There is more to the weight distribution between the action styles that affects the swing than JUST the barrel length.

Repeaters, with long receivers, tube mags, and large forends (compared to a double barrel) give a different overall balance. There's more involved (my opinion) than just a couple inches of barrel.
 
I do not shoot in competions and I do not hunt much with a shotgun. But I do like the longer guns. I'm 6'5" so unless the gun is made right (I'm a huge fan of the Circuit Judge) the bigger guns are easier to handle. I like the Marlin 55 Goose Gun. It's a bolt action with a 36 inch barrel. It's a massive gun and would be way to big for most. Hunting with it is a bit of a challenge trying to walk through the woods but it's not hard to get used to. It's great for breaking spider webs out of your path too.
 
Its not just fashion ....its what works best for you ....

When I started shooting Skeet, semi-seriously in the early 1970's...26" barrels on Over Unders were what we shot..../ but I always found them a little too light and short - and difficult to swing smoothly....

.....so I transitioned to 28" barrels in the late 70's and shot them for a long time ....but my scores got a lot more consistent when I transitioned to 30" barrels in the mid 90's ( on skeet, sporting clays and on live upland birds).

There was a time, in the last 10 yrs or so, when a number of big time skeet and sporting clays shooters went to 32" barrels on their over unders....but I think most of them have gone back to 30" barrels now.../ so even with those guys, who have incredible talent, its about finding out what is optimal for them.
 
works

....its what works best for you ....
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Amen to that.
I shoot Trap once a week pretty much all year round weather permitting.
I have a BT-99.....34 inch barrels. That is what I shoot most of the time. Two other guns that I like and shoot as well are field guns with 26" barrels - a Baikal SXS and an old Winchester Model 59...very comfortable guns for me to shoot.
Pete
 
Longer barrels tend to be smoother and work better for longish shots. Think duck hunting. They also work well with most of the shooting games where you have at least some idea where the targets are coming from and going to. Shorter barrels come up quicker and work well for targets going pretty much straight away where the shot has to be gotten off quickly or not at all. Lots of quail and rabbit hunters in thick areas prefer them.

And there is personal preference.

On MOST repeaters I like 26", 28" on doubles as a good compromise. A longer barrel would work better some times, and shorter would be better at times. But hunting isn't like golf where you carry a bag full of guns and select the perfect one for each shot. Those lengths work for me. Others like em longer or shorter.

The individual gun matters. My 26" Benelli is about the same overall length, and balances like a 28" Remington. For one thing most Remington barrels are 1/2"-1" shorter than advertised. And the Benelli receiver is a bit longer. Combined that adds up to about 2" of overall extra length.
 
I absolutely despise long barrels----too unwieldy and heavy

870 Youth Express is a favorite

870 Super Mag with a 26in barrel is "workable"

Have a couple cheaper pumps with 28in barrels which would be replaced if a new shorter hunting barrel didn't cost almost as much as a whole new gun--bought an 18in security barrel on sale for the Maverick--which made it a keeper----will probably trade off the Pardner pump.
 
It's the overall length of the gun that counts. It doesn't really make much difference if 4 inches of the "barrel" is the bolt in a bolt action gun. So yes, repeaters with shorter barrels will shoot and handle like longer barreled break open guns.

Now what's the ideal length of a shotgun? I'll leave that argument to others.
I will however say that if you are planning to compete in trap where you are going to shoot 100+ birds in one day, weight is your friend. It tames recoil which leads to flinch and head lifting upon firing. I like for a 12 gauge to weigh at least 8 pounds.
 
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Sight radius also comes into play - the longer the barrel the longer the sight radius. Lots of skeet shooters these days are using 28 and 30" barrels instead of the 26" that used to be common. Trap shooters have long loved longer barrels (34" in some cases).
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but you don't really aim when shooting trap/skeet or any flying objects

shorter barrels are wispier you do swing more evenly and steadily with a longer barrel, and balance

a shotgun can be made to have good balance with shorter barrels but it takes more work with the gun
 
Well, actually you do aim, perhaps not consciously. With a shotgun, your eye is the rear sight which is why cheek to stock position is so critical to hit targets. If you lift your head before pulling the trigger, you effectively raise the rear sight causing you to shoot over the bird.
 
Sight radius also comes into play - the longer the barrel the longer the sight radius. Lots of skeet shooters these days are using 28 and 30" barrels instead of the 26" that used to be common. Trap shooters have long loved longer barrels (34" in some cases).
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Sight radius is important in target rifles where a 1/4" is a big deal. The difference in accuracy between a 26" and 30" barrel at shotgun ranges is negligible.

Swing dynamics is the driving force behind the popularity of longer barrels.
 
Well, actually you do aim, perhaps not consciously.
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I think (and have been taught) that it is two very distinct skills and ways

very few people are great at both clays and target shooting because it is so different

there are some overlap when shooting moving targets with a rifle but it is still different IMO



in several things you do the opposite in shotguns vs rifles (and handguns)
trigger
aiming rifling- soft deliberate sques
swinging shotgun - slap almost by reflex
aiming rifle - focus on sight/crosshair
swinging shotgun - focus on target

you can be succesful molding yourself round a rifle but you must mold the shotgun to yourself to be succesful
 
different

very few people are great at both clays and target shooting because it is so different
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Reminds me.....on my very first try at 16 yard Trap, I hit precisely one target. One of the fellows on the line with me took me aside and said....."you are shooting like you are using a rifle. Mount the gun, look at the bird, swing to and past it and pull the trigger." The next round was six; the one after that was 16.
(some people shoot straights the first time that they try.....i ain't one of them.)
Pete
 
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