Rear sight to the right or Front to the left.

B

Blindstitch

New member
I finally got my Smith and Wesson SD9EV hitting on target. When both sights were centered on the slide it was shooting 8 inches to the left. It has been a while since I've been to the range but yesterday I finally got it to shoot where I want it. Before it would only shoot the left side of the target to the bullseye.

Well I ended up moving the rear sight way right. So far that it's hanging a bit off the side of the slide. Not past the serrations but far enough that it looks odd.


So the question is do I move the front sight which is at center right now or leave it as is. It was irritating me at the range seeing it so far over.
 
First I would make sure it's not you. Check your grip and trigger pull. My brother shot several inches to the left and wanted to adjust his sights. I asked to shoot it and it was dead on. I told him to readjust his grip and then he was right on and says I was right. He was spec ops and can shoot pretty well. I have done the same thing and the RO told me to straighten my arm. I shot much better. I shoot handgun leagues. Sometimes you are having an off day and just need to correct some things.

It won't hurt to have someone else shoot it first and possibly see if you are shooting improperly. Compensating the sights for user error won't help you shoot better. Not saying it is you but better to make sure first.

Edit: I live in oconomowoc and woukd be more than willing to help you out. Not saying I am any expert by any means but a lot of times observers can see things you are doing wrong better than you can. Happens for me all the time. One of my guys in the league video tapes us all the time and goes over the tape
 
99.9% chance it is you and not the gun. Sorry. :(

Are you right handed? Right handed shooters often push their shots to the left because of how they pull (mash?) the trigger and push the muzzle to the left. If mashing the trigger, this often drives the shots down.

At what range are you shooting? If it is a short distance of say 7-10 yards and you can't hit center with a slow and deliberate trigger squeeze, then there is either something wrong with the gun or your technique.

A few things you can try...

1) As themalicious0ne has said, have someone else shoot it to see if they get the same results.

2) Shoot the firearm off of a rest with very careful sight alignment and slow steady squeeze of the trigger.

Moving the sights THAT far is an indication of some other problem.

Fly
 
I have an astigmatism plus I am a left eye dominant right handed shooter. :o Even with all that the most I drift a sight left or right is maybe 1/16". If you need the sight to hang off the slide to get it hit point of aim you either need to examine your technique or have that pistol checked out. More often than not, and it happens to me, it's the former.
 
themalicious0ne,
I was out at McMiller yesterday and the RO was watching me but didn't say anything. If anyone else out there was willing to help I would have let them.

Yeah it could be me. I have 600+ rounds through this gun and it has always shot to the left. I have shot a glock in Vegas at a machine gun range and it hit exactly where I was aiming. I also have a Ruger Sr22p and it does just fine.

We're not talking long range here. Like 7 yards. I'm not rushing as I learned that doesn't do any better for me than throwing more lead down range.

I'm kind of starting to regret buying this gun. I upgraded to the apex spring kit and that helped with the trigger pull. Then I upgraded the trigger because I didn't like the springy feel of the two piece stock trigger. Now the trigger feels a lot better.
 
I have to move the rear sight on my HK USP V1 9mm to zero in my impacts at 10 yds.

Test your gun on a rest. Squeeze the trigger slowly til the report surprised you. Take it from there for adjustments.

Rinse repeat. :)
 
Check that your trigger finger is using the front pad it will let your pull be more consistent and even.
The trigger on the SD 9 isn't the best so you may be pulling the gun a little when firing.
 
Since I have upgraded the trigger I have only been out this one time but it felt better and more crisp.

The great improvement of the trigger was more because the double jointed Smith and Wesson trigger was giving me mixed feedback. When pulling it's not not like a solid trigger that I could judge how far it would get back before breaking. It was springy so one shot would feel good and the next wouldn't feel like the first.

I like the new apex trigger a lot more. Although right out of the box at the range the trigger wasn't reseting. I had 5 shots where after every shot the trigger stayed back. I dropped the magazine and ejected the round and put the magazine back in and it was good to go again. After those first five firing aluminum federal cases the gun worked flawlessly. With the slide removed the trigger shows no signs of binding so i'm taking those 5 shots as a fluke.
 
Well I ended up moving the rear sight way right. So far that it's hanging a bit off the side of the slide. Not past the serrations but far enough that it looks odd.
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Assuming it behaves the same in a different shooter's hands, call S&W. "Somethin' ain't right."
 
^^^
Yeah, if it's really the gun, it should go back to the factory, no question.
And it can be the gun.
I once had a rimfire rifle that just about shot around corners.
Even at close range, the rear sight had to be adjusted so it nearly fell off the receiver.
Turned out the barrel wasn't straight.
 
I totally agree with lee n. field and that's what I want to clear up. Just need to find an experienced shooter to give it a go.

Thank god it's not my deer rifle with Wisconsin gun deer season starting in a week.
 
8" at 21 feet is too much. If it's the gun, it needs attention from the manufacturer. That's enough misalignment that it should be possible to look at the gun and see something out of kilter. That would be around a quarter of an inch of barrel misalignment.

More likely it's a shooter issue and the easiest way to tell is to measure your group sizes. Taking your time and really concentrating on sight alignment and trigger control, you should be able to shoot groups well under 2" at 21 feet--preferably one ragged hole groups. If that's not happening then the gun should be tested by someone who can meet that accuracy standard.
 
Taking your time and really concentrating on sight alignment and trigger control, you should be able to shoot groups well under 2" at 21 feet--preferably one ragged hole groups.
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That's a pretty good shooter. The average I've seen across the spectrum of shooters is more than that. It's certain possible to do better, but the skill level and experience of the shooter needs to be taken into account.

I too would also be curious though what the OP's group sizes are like. I do find it a bit odd he said he shot POA=POI with a Glock.
 
Hmm... I have an HK USP 9mm that I was shooting to the left. I had a smith look at it and he adjusted the rear sight as it was doing the same thing with him.



After the job I shot this at 8 yards. Near the end of 50 rounds I was getting tired. Also I have a bad shoulder so I don't think I did too bad.

 
TunnelRat,

I guess what I was trying to say is that if a shooter isn't shooting groups that small at 7 yards (21 feet), then it's going to be hard for them diagnose a POA/POI problem. Short of a vision problem, or other physical issue, groups larger than that at 7 yards are indicative of a trigger control issue and that can have a profound effect on POI in addition to group size.
 
I guess what I was trying to say is that if a shooter isn't shooting groups that small at 7 yards (21 feet), then it's going to be hard for them diagnose a POA/POI problem. Short of a vision problem, or other physical issue, groups larger than that at 7 yards are indicative of a trigger control issue and that can have a profound effect on POI in addition to group size.
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The way I see it, even groups of 4" and more at 21 ft. should still allow you to diagnose a POA/POI problem. You're right that too large of a group and there is no discernible pattern, but again we're supposedly talking 8" left of center so the groups could be huge and you'd still notice a POI shift. The key is to look at the centroid over a number of groups and to take into account past experience with other pistols (such as similar problems).

Trigger control issues will almost always be present with handgun shooting, with experienced shooters able to control their shots better but not always immune. In my experience the difference is experienced shooters will typically be able to tell immediately after a shot was fired if their trigger control was good for that shot and if not then why that shot didn't impact as expected.

If it is a trigger control problem, 8" at 7 yards should be a pretty noticeable flinch. Besides another shooter trying the pistol, some snap caps mixed in with the live ammo might be a good idea. I've found an hour with snap caps mixed into the magazine with live ammo can have a big impact on shooter induced error, and at the least it typically makes the shooter aware of the problem.

I had a smith look at it and he adjusted the rear sight as it was doing the same thing with him.
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I make sight adjustments from factory with every pistol I own. The adjustments are often very slight, like I said maybe 1/16", but in shooting multiple groups I can notice the change in the centroid.
 
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The S&W you're shooting isn't the easiest gun to shoot well, and folks complain a lot about the triggers. But they can be accurate guns.

If it's the gun and NOT YOU, you can move the rear sight a bit to the right and the front sight a bit to the left. While both sights will be off the centerline, it won't look as AWKWARD as is now seems from your description.

If you find that it's NOT YOU (i.e., it is the gun), you should call S&W customer service and talk to them about what's going on. You shouldn't have to adjust the sights THAT MUCH if you're doing things right. They may want you to return the gun, and you might be able to talk them into working on the trigger while its there. (I've read that several folks have been told to send their gun back to S&W and nearly all of them have been really pleased with their gun after S&W worked on it; there was no charge for the trigger work.

Before you do that, however, you should try shooting from a rest as was suggested in an earlier response. If it's you and not the gun, you'll be really frustrated if the gun still doesn't shoot right for you after it comes back.

Shooting from a rest can be as easy as sitting down at a table or bench at the range, with the gun in your hands and your hands resting on a pad (or a bag of dried rice or beans, a gun rest, etc.). Then aim as you SLOWLY squeeze off the rounds. That take some of the human factor out of the process and you're able to focus on the trigger more easily.

It's important that you use the right part of your trigger finger -- the pad of that end of the trigger finger, or a little closer to the first joint from the end -- but not the joint. And shoot slowly.

The idea is press the trigger straight to the rear. Too little or too much finger on the trigger makes that hard to do.

  • Too little finger on the trigger can apply pressure to the right side of the trigger, pushing the gun to the left as your press the trigger.
  • Too much finger on the trigger (maybe the second joint from the tip) can cause you to push the gun to the left, too. Unhappily, too much finger can also cause you to pull the gun to the right, as well -- it all depends on how your finger moves as you move the trigger.
  • Squeezing all the fingers of your gun hand as you pull the trigger can also push things to the left.
  • Anticipating recoil can do that, too (i.e., unconsciously pushing forward as you pull the trigger)
 
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Sometimes, it's both the gun and the shooter - that is, the ergonomics of the gun affect the shooter in different ways. I once shot a rented Beretta PX4 with my brother, and we were both getting small groups off-center in different places - he shot low, and I shot to the right.

It was clearly the shooters who were off rather than the gun, but the ergos were clearly pushing our natural tendencies off in different ways. I'm sure with further practice, we'd eventually get it right, but the question is why not start with something that suited us better in the first place? That's why I don't like to recommend a specific gun when people ask - so much of shooting is subjective.
 
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