Real Basic Q's on Mausers, Enfields

R

Rogue Star

Inactive
Howdy all! This here's my first post on TFL. I've lurked on and off, now I join you.

I've recently purchased my first 2 rifles. Well sort of, MINE is an AR-15, and my WIFE's is a Ruger 10/22. We share them. Or should I say my wife shares hers with me. The stock on my AR is too long for her.

Anyways, rifle shootin' is so much dang fun! I want more! I have an interest in History too, and I'm just barely familiar with Mausers and Enfields to know they were very common rifles in WWII. And I've noticed a few posts here about people buyin' and enjoying their Mausers. I'm interested in getting one for fun shooting and historical interest.

I've seen some incredible prices, like here: http://www.aimsurplus.com/crrifles/index.html

Now don't laugh now, here goes:
1. Are these rifles shootable? Or just for collecting, not shooting. (How bout the 'fair' ones, are they dangerous?)
2. How would you describe the accuracy? Are they pretty consistent, or they very wildly from rifle to rifle?

Please feel free to add anything that you think might help someone decide whether/how/why to purchase one. Be brief or expound, anything you have to say will be appreciated.
 
Welcome Rogue Star

These rifles can be great and a bunch of fun. Always check of get a gunsmith to check the rifle out before firing it.
I have noticed the prices going up and the quality going down but there are still some rifles out that need a home.
Last time I looked, search was up and many post should be available to you. Have fun, be safe and welcome aboard.
Hank
 
Now why didn't I think of using the search? Sorry.

But hey, you said to always get a gunsmith to check it out before firing. You mean I have to purchase a rifle first, then hire a gunsmith? That's a BIG bummer. Call me cheap, but I don't think I want to take a risk in buying a gun that may turn out to be unshootable. :mad:
 
R.S.
It is a drag to have a rifle checked out after purchase, but it is necessary. If you stick to buying the surplus rifles graded as very good with matching bolt and receiver numbers and bores graded as very good, you will most likely get a good gun. Some companys will had pick a rifle for about $10.00 more. The things that must be checked are the headspace, cracked receivers, and safety functions.
The cheaper guns usually have worn bores and bolts that have numbers that don't match. You will spend more money trying to bring the cheap gun upto snuff that you spent getting the good one to start with.
An idea, have your gunsmith order the rifle for you. He will most likely check the rifle out for you as a part of the cost or for very little above the cost.
Every rifle that I order for a customer (new or used) gets checked out by me before I give it to the customer. This covers my butt and makes me feel good as I know that I have given my customer a safe firearm. Small problems are fixed free of charge. Treat your gunsmith right and he will treat you the same. Enjoy your new rifle - John K.
 
Just remember the terms "Fair" and "Good" when refering to guns does not translate to our everyday usage. "Fair" usually means it's just a parts gun at best and "Good" can mean very rough shape and maybe even some parts missing.

My thoughts are that if you buy a "Good" gun and like it your just going to want to move up to better condition one anyway, and if it turns out you don't like it, your going to have a lot harder time selling it than a better condition gun. Thats why I personally think your always better off buying "Very Good" or "Excellent" graded weapons. The cost difference usually really isn't that much.

Just my thoughts, Blue Duck
 
In my experience, most surplus Mausers are shootable without a lot of checking. If the barrel is decent and cleans up reasonably well (sharp rifling, even if grooves are dark), I would shoot it with a standard load, for the first shot just holding the rifle on a bench but not putting your head into the normal shooting position. Examine the fired cartridge case for any signs of bulging, stretching, primer piercing, etc.

Enfields, if relatively new (Rifle No. 4s or late No. 1s) will usually be OK, though Enfields are subject to more headspace problems than Mausers due to the design of the rifle. The same route should work OK.

Still, I have to suggest the gunsmith route to a newbie. I can usually tell a bummer right away, often with no more than a glance, but then I have a fair amount of experience.

Jim
 
Hey Rogue, I'm not sure which rifles you were looking at over on the AIM sight, but 10 minutes after I posted, my dealers son called to tell me my Yugoslavian model 48 from AIM ($109) had arrived this afternoon. If thats one of the one's your interested in I'll let you know how it worked out for me. I'll try to pick it up tommorow but our "instant" check system seems to place me on delay about 70% of the time so it may be next week before I can claim it.

Blue Duck
 
Ooooo! Ooooo! You hit my area! While I enjoy shooting handguns and love disintegrating clay targets mid-air, military bolt actions are my true love!

First off, there are not stupid questions! Your questions are all valid.

In terms of shootability, the answer is sometimes. Others have outlined the safety issues. And, good advice has been given. Stick with the guns graded "Very Good" to "Excellent." Of course, "Unissued" is great as well.

One of the most common things to check on bolt action guns is the headspacing. You can buy a no-go headspace gauge from Brownells for around $25 that will help you determine if a gun is safe in a particular caliber. That's what I did for 8mm Mauser chambered rifles.

Old bolt guns can be very accurate. In general, their designs and workmanship are usually high-quality and are accurate. However, the old beater guns are often worn out past their age.

If you really like old bolt guns, get a Curio & Relic license. This allows you to buy guns from companies like AIM Surplus directly without going through dealers. It's really neat to have guns delivered to your door. For more info on the Curio & Relic license, go to the ATF website. The license is easy to get, costs only $50 for three years, and is invaluable! I love it!

Lastly, go to http://www.mosin-nagant.net and hook into the Discussion Area. As much as I love The Firing Line, this forum is nothing compared to Tuco's mosin-nagant.net site for old bolt gun talk. He has specialized forums packed full of knowledgeable people who are willing to answer your questions.

Happy cruffling (you'll get familiar with that term if you stick around the old bolt action group for too long).
 
Martowski is right about Tuco's.

It is probably good advice about seeing the gunsmith before firing, but I have never done it and have bought quite a few of the old bolt actions. I fire two rounds by remote control with a long lanyard and the rifle in a padded vise before firing normally from the shoulder. Then I examine the cases for pressure signs, excess headspace signs, etc.

Most of these are good shooters and you get to experience history in your own way.
 
I've bought a $99 Lee-Enfield No4Mk2, $130 Polish made Mosin-Nagant M44, and a $140 Yugoslav Mauser M48. Non of which I had a smith examine prior to shooting.

I carefully cleaned each while examining the parts for obvious problems. Finding none, I fired them while keeping as much of my body away from danger areas. Only the Enfield had signs of bad headspace (cases difficult to extract/slight bulging) and only then did I take it to a gunsmith for headspace correction.

The Enfield was fairly rough when I purchased it, but it cleaned up pretty well and the bore looked good. I had it reparkerized, the stock was refinished (by me), and it now looks like an extremely well taken care of military rifle. Ammo is getting a little more difficult to locate locally. For some reason, maybe the buttplate shape, the recoil feels pretty tame. The rear sight on mine is a folding, 2 aperature, setup that's pretty nice, but I rarely shoot for groups so I couldn't give a MOA figure.

The M44 was purchased as a pure beater. That changed when I took it to the range for the first time. I was very surprised by its accuracy. I was also surprised by its recoil. It's condition upon purchase was near new, with a few stock dings and a bit of worn bluing at the muzzle (where the bayonet slips over it). If I finally get around to locating a rubber recoil pad for this thing, it will take the top military bolt gun spot in my arsenal. Maybe I've become accustomed to Russian sights, but I find the M44's sights to be quite good. Ammo for this is very inexpensive and will probably be available in surplus and new manufacture for some time.

The Yugo Mauser M48 looked pretty good, though covered in cosmoline, upon first inspection. After getting it home, a good cleaning revealed a dark and pitted bore. Oops! It seems to shoot pretty well, considering the crappy sights and the Turkish (corrosive) surplus ammo that I bought for cheap. Maybe I expected too much, but I'm not terribly impressed with the mighty Mauser.
 
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