Real "acceptable" hunting accuracy

R

Rockchucker333

Inactive
I read online all the time about people claiming to be shooting sub moa. Now I am not saying people aren't doing it I have several rifles that do it easily when I do my part. But with my hunting rifles (deer/bear) I consider anything under 2" (2moa) at 100 yards perfectly fine in my book. Now I will not settle for 2" groups at 100 yards but with my hunting loads near max charges or in some loads over max charges (I reload) consistent 1.5" groups get my approval all day. Now these are my hunting loads and I shoot a max of 300 yards with 90% of my shots coming at under 125 yards. With these same rifles I have target loads that I can shoot 5 shots into a wallowed out hole at 100 yards but I will take an extra 200fps and let my groups open up to 1"-1.5" to do so and not care one bit because of what I am gaining. What are some of your thoughts?

My father is the opposite he will not hunt with a rifle unless it shoots a ragged hole at 100 yards with at least a 5 shot group and he don't sweat his velocity at all. And back to the 1moa stuff today I shot 3 shots at 100 yards with my 7x57 pushing a 140 grain sierra gameking behind 51.5 grains of H4350 (stout load) into 1 little ragged hole and shots 4 and 5 opened it up to 1.5".......barrel was cooled, I didn't flinch, it's a 1.5moa rifle with that particular load. The same rifle and bullet combo with 47.5 grains will shoot .5" groups. So what are your opinions? Accuracy versus horsepower? When it comes to hunting that is.....
 
I don't have a problem with a hunting rifle that shoots two or three inch groups at 100 yards. I also don't worry too much about velocity so long as I know the trajectory of the bullet and the velocity is high enough for the bullet to expand properly.
 
Depends upon what you are designing the load for. THAT is the beauty of rolling your own!

I have loads that are tuned for max accuracy, loads for mild recoil, loads for killing p-dogs, and for max velocity .... and most are some combination of all the above .....

If your anticipated range is only 100 yards, maximum, then a 4moa rifle/load will do the job on bambi, if you do. It'd be darn hard to find a modern bolt rifle in good repair that would shoot that badly......

Shooting at grass rats at 300 yards? That requires a bit more accuracy, does it not?

Then there's special situational loads: I've got one that that only needed to be pie-plate accurate, but needed to give the best terminal energy with the least amount of blast and recoil out of a 16inch barrelled bolt gun, being shot by a 10 year old kid. I can do that, too.
 
I reload and I keep dialing in trying to get get 1/4" 5 shot groups @ 100 yrds.That's always my goal with all my hunting rifles. I always figured if I can do that from a bench, it'll make up for my short falls in the field. To each his own though.
 
I want to point out what I do and what I call acceptable are what "I" like to do with my hunting a rifles and my loads. I am just pointing out what I do and I am curious about others and what they do is all. There is no right or wrong here just a friendly discussion. As for me I'll give up a little accuracy for a few extra fps while my father wouldn't dare hunt with one of my rifles with my loads shooting 1"-1.5" groups! lol. We poke fun at each other quite a bit. And that's just it its all fun even talking about it :)
 
No real answer. The most powerful miss is just a miss. The answer lies in not some silly "MOA" rifle/load combination, but "how good are you"? Can you hit the "Boiler Room" shooting off hand, on your hind legs? How big is the boiler room? Golf ball, baseball, softball, soccerball, football, or the size of a pea. How far are you able to hit the target while standing, sitting, prone, or using an aid of some type? The need for horsepower is very little, and the need to hit the target is the important part.
 
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All that matters is where the first shot goes.

Many rifles (even those who's poor group size Is legendary), will put a hole in the bullseye every time with a cold bore... As long as it's been sighted in that way and the shooter has reasonable skill.

Honestly I'll take the rifle out and shoot a bunch of cheap crap rounds through it for fun...
It will look like a shotgun pattern evenly around the bullseye
Throw a couple of hunting rounds at it and see if the sights are good...

Next time I'm out and about I'll send a hunting bullet down range first to see where it hits... Always good to go..

If I hunt, and don't see an animal on that outing... I'll shoot the chambered round and see if it hit at the point of aim.... Always good.

I never need to adjust scope, even on the rifles that ride around in the truck... But I always check it...
I did have a ring come loose once... That was puzzling for a minute lol. But my fault.
 
Medium game (pronghorn and deer) 1.5 MOA is fine in my book. I like better accuracy for hunting med. game, but don't get my knickers all wadded up over 1.5" groups at a hundred yards. I always shoot two or three rounds at 300 yards well in advance of hunting seasons to make sure I know what goes on down range.

For prairie rat guns, I strive for 0.5 inch accuracy at 100 yards. Then when time comes to check out the .270, I have to crank back my expectations at the range. :D

The longest shot for me was on an antelope was about 350 yards on a fawn. The 270 nailed it. Most deer hunting shots are less than 150 yards, even in eastern Colorado.

And one last comment. I will only shoot at game animals off hand if a very close shot presents itself. Which in the last 5 years hasn't happened. A prone shot is convenient and a lot more sure than trying to cowboy a hit on a deer over about 50 yards away. I wounded a deer one time and will never make that same stupid mistake by shooting offhand, except if the animal is standing broadside at less than 50 yards. I don't need the meat that bad.
 
If you can hit a paper plate at your maximum distance then you're good. But always strive for better groups. Beyond that you will probably clearly miss.

I watched a guy sight in his rifled shotgun before deer season using those expensive sabot shells. At 25 yards he shot $100 worth of slugs off a rest. Then he asked the range officer to see if he could figure out what was going wrong. The RO shot out the center of the target. Gave the gun back and the guy missed 4 more times and went home. This was a scoped gun.

I think the deer will be safe.
 
My .270 shoots 490s (0.490-0.499") at 100 yards with my hunting load. It's excessive, in the eyes of many people. But... that's the rifle that I take most of my head shots with. Without the precision that the rifle and ammunition combination provides, I wouldn't have the option for instant death and "DRT" kills.
Even if it isn't a head shot that I'm taking, it's very nice to know exactly where the bullet is going to end up.


In contrast, the current load that I'm running in my .458 SOCOM is only good for about 1.75" at 75 yards. It's terrible, in comparison to the .270 Win; but the SOCOM doesn't need to be "match grade". It's intended for close-range elk hunting in thick, nasty, dark timber. Shot opportunities range from 10 yards to less than 50 yards, generally.

100 yard head shots aren't ideal (and I don't consider them to be an option), but ~2" at 100 yards is plenty good for smacking an elk in the kill zone at close range. And with 4 to 9 rounds on tap, I can keep dumping 300+ gr bullets into the animal's chest, as fast as I can get back on target, until it hits the ground.


At the far end of the spectrum, I had a .30-40 Krag that was only good for about 6-8" at 100 yards, with most of the handloads and Remington ammo that I tried. Under the right circumstances, I considered it good enough for large game. ...But taking it out to smack some prairie dogs? Nope. Not gonna waste the ammunition.
 
It's really a mental game for each hunter. For some (including myself) a super accurate hunting rifle that shoots tiny groups is a confidence builder. But in reality, animals don't run around with bulls eye targets on them. Your shot could be right where you aimed, but your brain misinterpreted what you saw through the scope & you get a not so perfect hit.

Try this. Shoot your 1/2 MOA rifle 5 times at a blank piece of paper shooting for the exact middle & see what group you get. Probably not a 1/2 MOA but a good indicator of your hunting accuracy. BTW: not fair to use the 1st bullet hole as an aiming point LOL.

FWIW...

...bug
 
Hunting accuracy

ROCK.....I can, and do empathize/agree with you on load vel./acc. points. I used to obsess with trying to get the fastest, most accurate load possible out of all my guns-rifles and handguns alike. Some were 1/2 MOA w/ less vel. and others were [super fast], w/mediocre accuracy. An old 1st. SGT who hunted FT BENNING asked me one day at PHILLIPS RANGE- when I was working up some loads and was cussing enough to make a sailor blush (and I know from experience, since my father was a WWII vet and could rattle off some choice verbiage), asked me 'when was the last time I saw a bull'seye
painted on the side of any animal I'd shot, and how could I prove-if even to myself- that I hit the animal EXACTLY where I was aiming; And, if I could prove that 200fps+/- would kill the animal any deader than as dead as he was when carried off. The fact that you take him/it home is proof enough the load is good and up to the job. [For example] Compare 7mm-08 and 7mm REM MAG, and anything in between- in the same caliber- velocity-wise. Can't ignore the vel. difference between the two, nor the amount/size of game taken w/ the 7-08 [at the LOWER vel.].
Use your more accurate/lower vel. loads [with the same bullet?] and get your intended game and do not worry about anything else....You'll be good to go.
WILL
 
I don't stop tuning loads in rifles until Im sure I can take an offhand shot and put it withing 2"s of where Im aiming consistantly, velocity doesn't hold sway to accuracy for me.
 
Trading energy for accuracy?

I'd rather hit with a mild load than miss with a hot one. Max loads will extend your effective range a bit, but what's the benefit if your bullet wanders out of the killing zone.
 
Expect field/hunting accuracy to be about 1/2 as good(group size doubled) what you get from a benchrest on a range. Groups size of 1/2 the size of the kill zone on the game being hunted is acceptable.
 
Prairie dogs? Sub-MOA is right at being a necessity except for close-up shots.

Bambi? The vast majority of shots are inside of 200 yards, so anything of two MOA or better is plenty good.
 
I read about a careful gamekeeper kept detailed records of animals shot on club hunting areas. He recorded the type of rifle, caliber, ammo used, distance shot, and other details.

As I remember, he found that people with moderate shooting skill, using factory rifles and common factory ammo killed game just as well as those using fancy custom rifles and the best handloads.

Still, I like to have my rifles shoot at least 1 minute of angle; zeroed to provide optimal point-blank trajectory for the cartridge/load. When hunting and finding quarry within the point-blank zone, I can shoot quickly from whatever position works to allow a good shot. I've shot deer from rest positions, out to over 400 yards, and offhand to about 200.

When aiming at game or target, after identifying and deciding to shoot, the safety comes off and I look at the POINT on the critter I want to hit...not the antlers or other places, nor concentrate on the crosshair center, just that aiming point. The crosshairs tend to center on the aiming point, almost by magic. If the crosshairs appear adequately steady on the aiming point for a good shot, and it's a safe shot, I'll take it with a quick squeeze.

The MOA of the rifle never comes to mind, just the trajectory beyond point-blank, and quick-kill zones at whatever (decent) angle the animal presents.

I have confidence in my shooting ability, but know my limitations and make it a point to know safe shooting zones with respect to other hunters, livestock, houses, etc., (including likely ricochet angles). The value of game is never high enough to compromise safety.
 
It all depends. If I am hunting deep dark woods for elk with the .444 or .450, I practice offhand to 100 yards and 8" groups are fine, with a tree branch to 200, 8" groups are fine. Both guns will shoot 1-1.5" benched at 100, but I will never shoot them benched.

With the .260, Pronghorn, Deer and Varmints, I am not happy until I am close to 1/2MOA, but I shoot game out to 700 yards with it, 20x, Atlas bi-pod and suppressor make is heavier too.

With my .338-06, which I mostly hunt elk with, it will print 3/8" groups at 100, but I would be happy with 6" groups at 500 which is the end of the range.

The .243, I have printed groups under 0.2" at 100, but I am shooting tiny animals with that.

For most hunting, if you can shoot 3 shots each from standing, sitting, kneeling, prone and put 12 round into a paper plate, that is better than most people in the woods. Move that paper plate out until you lose 100% hits and then either practice, or call that your max range.
 
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