My friend in ROTC has been teaching me about how to shoot when some one has the drop on you. In most situationswhether its being mugged or attacked usually the assailant has the advantage. Im from seattle and never been allowed to run and shoot at the range. Go to WSU now and we go out to Idaho to shoot. we practice getting as much shots off as possible in the shortest amount of time while changing our position to make us a harder target to shoot. I no longer line my sites up instead as soon as the barrel looks level to the target i start shooting while running diagonally toward the target to change the angle. Im curious to learn about techniques that are tried and true in winning a gunfight.
Reactive Shooting
- Thread starter NIA
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OldShooter
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shooting
Are you hitting the target with all these shots? Is the target shooting back? Have you tried running away or finding cover? How do you know how you are doing? Have you tried IDPA or USPSA? If the bad guy has the drop on you, you might be dead before your gun clears the holster.
Are you hitting the target with all these shots? Is the target shooting back? Have you tried running away or finding cover? How do you know how you are doing? Have you tried IDPA or USPSA? If the bad guy has the drop on you, you might be dead before your gun clears the holster.
After the "Onion Field" incident (and book came out) there was a big push to teach (LE officers) NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN.
We started teaching just what the OP is discussing. Engaging a target that has a drop on you. In not only is possible but it works.
We would (after assuring the pistols were empty of coure) have on officer point his pistol at the other. The second officer would then attempt to draw and fire before the officer pointing the gun could get a shot (dry fire at the 2nd officer) off.
You'd be supprised how well this tatic worked. You start talking, get the gun pointer talking or distracted,and you can draw and fire before the 1st officer shoots (dry fires). Whats odd, the 1st office knows the 2nd officer is going to draw, yet still often gets caught. Now think about the senario where the gun pointer thinks he has the drop on the second officer. It would be much esier to pull this off.
I dont like using movies as training aids, BUT, if you have seen the movie, "TAKEN". Toward the last of the movie, when badguy has a knife at the throat of good guys daughter, Good guy has gun pointed at bad guy. No action is taken until badguy starts to talk BAMB. Badguy down and daughter saved.
Any way the senario discribed by the OP is possible and may be your last option. But IN PRACTICING THIS PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION TO SAFETY. Dont want to make the mistake of not unloading all guns. When we did that, all guns were checked by all present to assure they were unloaded and Never done without a training officer present.
An unrelated note about the movie TAKEN listed above. NEVER NEVER watch this movie the Week before you grandaugther takes a school trip to DC. You'll go nuts worrying about her until she is safe at home. Ask me how I know this.
We started teaching just what the OP is discussing. Engaging a target that has a drop on you. In not only is possible but it works.
We would (after assuring the pistols were empty of coure) have on officer point his pistol at the other. The second officer would then attempt to draw and fire before the officer pointing the gun could get a shot (dry fire at the 2nd officer) off.
You'd be supprised how well this tatic worked. You start talking, get the gun pointer talking or distracted,and you can draw and fire before the 1st officer shoots (dry fires). Whats odd, the 1st office knows the 2nd officer is going to draw, yet still often gets caught. Now think about the senario where the gun pointer thinks he has the drop on the second officer. It would be much esier to pull this off.
I dont like using movies as training aids, BUT, if you have seen the movie, "TAKEN". Toward the last of the movie, when badguy has a knife at the throat of good guys daughter, Good guy has gun pointed at bad guy. No action is taken until badguy starts to talk BAMB. Badguy down and daughter saved.
Any way the senario discribed by the OP is possible and may be your last option. But IN PRACTICING THIS PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION TO SAFETY. Dont want to make the mistake of not unloading all guns. When we did that, all guns were checked by all present to assure they were unloaded and Never done without a training officer present.
An unrelated note about the movie TAKEN listed above. NEVER NEVER watch this movie the Week before you grandaugther takes a school trip to DC. You'll go nuts worrying about her until she is safe at home. Ask me how I know this.
I disagree that only a fool would draw against someone with the drop on them. It is a black and white statement makes two assumptions:
1. That compliance will lead or is likely to lead to the compliers not being shot.
2. That reaction will lead or is likely to lead to the reactors being shot.
1. That compliance will lead or is likely to lead to the compliers not being shot.
2. That reaction will lead or is likely to lead to the reactors being shot.
Lot's of really good points brought up in only a few posts here.
My comments on them:
Absolutely. I continue to be amused at the emphasis on "sighting" with the sights. Real world situations are at close distances that require only pointing the barrel in COM direction of the target and pulling the trigger. In real self defense scenarios, speed and agility is most important, only because accuracy is virtually assured by the close distances encountered 99% of the time. If you miss at 7 feet, it's because of panic, not your aim.
I have yet to hear of anyone who was actually engaged in a life and death defensive shooting that recalls using the sights on their pistol.
Can't disagree with that in general, but it all depends on how focused or distracted the perp is.
One thing that we learned from both Capt. Kirk and James Bond
is that no situation is impossible to survive.
Assuming you're "dead meat" assumes that you cannot survive the situation, but that mindset will virtually assure that you do not survive the situation.
It's more a matter of creating and/or waiting for a better opportunity to increase your chances. Even an assumption of only 1% survivability will keep you thinking, while assuming 0% survivability means you gave up and will act in panic rather than calculation. Panic kills people all time, often when calculation might have saved their lives.
Exactly! Even when a person has the disadvantage, the one thing you never lose is the ability to steer a situation by distraction.
Every little motion you make, things you say, and even where you glance will serve as a distraction that can help you control a situation.
As pointed out here, one of the best distractions is to get and keep the BG talking, because while a person is talking, they are focusing on what they are saying and that distracts them from the more mundane stuff like shooting you.
Anyone who doesn't believe that talking isn't a huge distraction to the person who is doing the talking, reflect on the number of people who've done stupid things in traffic right in front of you, and it turns out that in almost every case, the driver was talking on their cell phones (hand held or hands free... it doesn't matter).
Also an "Exactly!" comment.
There is never, ever a "black and white" when it comes to being in a SD situation. No two SD situations will ever be identical to any scenario you have read about or could make up in your head.
Location, lighting, available cover, number of people on either side, and many other details, but especially, the state of mind of all involved is going to be different in every SD situation.
For those reasons, each situation will require your full attention to detail and you have to think to stay alive more than you have to shoot to stay alive. It's that first part that will keep you alive while it's the second part that may simply end the encounter.
And that's why controlling the situation through appropriate distraction is not only important, but will be different for every situation.
My .02, but personally, I think it should fetch at least .05 or so.
My comments on them:
Absolutely. I continue to be amused at the emphasis on "sighting" with the sights. Real world situations are at close distances that require only pointing the barrel in COM direction of the target and pulling the trigger. In real self defense scenarios, speed and agility is most important, only because accuracy is virtually assured by the close distances encountered 99% of the time. If you miss at 7 feet, it's because of panic, not your aim.
I have yet to hear of anyone who was actually engaged in a life and death defensive shooting that recalls using the sights on their pistol.
Can't disagree with that in general, but it all depends on how focused or distracted the perp is.
One thing that we learned from both Capt. Kirk and James Bond
is that no situation is impossible to survive. Assuming you're "dead meat" assumes that you cannot survive the situation, but that mindset will virtually assure that you do not survive the situation.
It's more a matter of creating and/or waiting for a better opportunity to increase your chances. Even an assumption of only 1% survivability will keep you thinking, while assuming 0% survivability means you gave up and will act in panic rather than calculation. Panic kills people all time, often when calculation might have saved their lives.
Exactly! Even when a person has the disadvantage, the one thing you never lose is the ability to steer a situation by distraction.
Every little motion you make, things you say, and even where you glance will serve as a distraction that can help you control a situation.
As pointed out here, one of the best distractions is to get and keep the BG talking, because while a person is talking, they are focusing on what they are saying and that distracts them from the more mundane stuff like shooting you.
Anyone who doesn't believe that talking isn't a huge distraction to the person who is doing the talking, reflect on the number of people who've done stupid things in traffic right in front of you, and it turns out that in almost every case, the driver was talking on their cell phones (hand held or hands free... it doesn't matter).
Also an "Exactly!" comment.
There is never, ever a "black and white" when it comes to being in a SD situation. No two SD situations will ever be identical to any scenario you have read about or could make up in your head.
Location, lighting, available cover, number of people on either side, and many other details, but especially, the state of mind of all involved is going to be different in every SD situation.
For those reasons, each situation will require your full attention to detail and you have to think to stay alive more than you have to shoot to stay alive. It's that first part that will keep you alive while it's the second part that may simply end the encounter.
And that's why controlling the situation through appropriate distraction is not only important, but will be different for every situation.
My .02, but personally, I think it should fetch at least .05 or so.