? RE: 44 Magnum Carbine Build

T

tobnpr

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I'm starting a .44 Magnum rifle build for a customer. Since I'm more in tune with target /centerfire rifle chamberings I'm looking for input.

Customer wants a barrel length of 16"-20", and a relatively light contour. For anyone familiar with the .44 Mag in a carbine application appreciate any input regarding optimal barrel length and whether a target or sporter type contour would look best?
 
Lever action? Bolt action?

My own preference would be for a 'sporter' profile for a bolt gun; and something closer to straight-taper on a lever action. For either, I'd want a hybrid muzzle contour -- traditional-looking radiused outer diameter, rolling over into a recessed 'target' crown. (Scorch should get a chuckle out of reading that -- he just did one for me on a 16.25" Marlin .30-30. ;))

Most ".44 Mag in a rifle" discussions usually end up with 16-18" being considered optimal, so long as maximum velocity is not the goal.
However, I think those opinions are heavily influenced by legal minimum barrel lengths in the U.S. and Canada (18.5").
BBTI's testing showed that most factory loads start losing velocity in a barrel over 13-16" (depending upon the load, of course).

I'd go for just over legal length.
 
I was thinking pretty much the same thing as FM. There arre plenty of lever actions out there already off the shelf. 16" is going to be near the perfect size unless the buyer wants to go the SBR route and then 14" would be better but is worth $200 and waiting for a while?
 
For anyone familiar with the .44 Mag in a carbine application appreciate any input regarding optimal barrel length and whether a target or sporter type contour would look best?
Click to expand...

.44 mag carbines are generally rifles meant to be carried, and not bench rest tack drivers, so a lighter barrel seems to be indicated. However, in .44 caliber, how much difference in profile actually exists??

Knowing what action you plan to built the rifle on would be a big help in giving responsible opinions.

What is it that the customer wants that he can't get in existing guns?? lever, bolt, single shot, pump? semi auto?? not sure about the pump but I know there have been .44 Mags in all the other action types.

The more info you can give us, the better we can help...
 
I have this question posed to me several times a year. I typically recommend 17" and then let the customer tell me what they want. Most of the rebarrel jobs I have done on 44 Mags ended up right at 18" simply because people who own them think that is appropriate and they don't want to shorten the magazine. Put a good .429" groove barrel on it, it's easy to get one to shoot better than factory.
 
twist rate

I'll comment regards twist rate, not barrel length. Give some thought to 1-20", or similar to .44 mag revolvers. Most early .44 mag carbines were twisted to slow (1-38") to handle bullet weights much past 240 gr, and some would not shoot even 240's all that well. The modern trend is towards heavy .44 mag bullets, which revolvers did fine with given their 1-18/1-20 or so twist. But the early Marlin, Win and Ruger carbines (1-38") typically did not shoot the heavies all that well.

I think the proof in that is with Rugers now defunct .44 carbines. The early tube feed models were 1-38". When the new, mag fed 96/99 series came out, as well as the 77/44 bolt, they were 1-20", much like the Ruger revolvers. Ruger recognized they had missed the boat with the early slow twist and corrected it in the second generation of carbines.
 
There was a custom shop just starting to offer 20 twist Deerslayer barrels with the gas block attached by dovetail and soft solder instead of hard solder when the model was discontinued. Accuracy was improved, but they didn't pursue it with only used guns to work on.
 
Marlin is still 1:38"

They have no problems firing >240gr accurately, as long as velocities are kept on the high end...
 
Marlin is still missing the boat with that twist rate.

Most of my experience with 1:38" and 1:20" twist barrels is in regard to .444 Marlin. But, even there, with an extra 500-900 fps at the muzzle, 1:38" twist barrels can rarely get away with anything heavier than 290 gr -- and almost anything over 265 gr must be pushed to maximum velocity (often running pressures beyond the design limit of the 336/444 receiver).

I love my 1:20" barrels. And while I wasn't much of a fan of the 1:38" barrel, it did work for "standard" weight bullets (240-275 gr).

But I don't believe that either twist rate is appropriate. 1:20" is too steep for .444 Marlin, and possibly even .44 Mag in a rifle.

If I was in the market for a .44 Mag carbine barrel that was going to be fed 'normal' ammunition (180-300 gr bullets), I'd be looking for a 1:26" twist barrel.
I believe McGowen, Lothar Walther, and PacNor offer such (or something close); though I haven't checked for a few years.
 
Lotta that will vary with the guy's intended use of the thing.
Douglas makes blanks with 1 in 14, 16 & 36 twist. 10, 18 and 24 from McGowan.
Something is screaming 20", double rifle at me. Don't ask me why though. I think it's because a custom built .44 Mag is kind of a daft thing. And if you're doing something kind of daft there ain't no box to think outta.
 
The 1:38" twist in both .44 Mag and .444 Marlin, is the SAAMI spec...
Click to expand...

Do note that SAAMI specs are voluntarily agreed on by the industry as standards that are safe, and will work. No one is under any obligation to use them, they are not physical laws of the universe, or even actual rules, more loike guidelines, really....ARRR!!

For a great many things, including rifling twist rate, things that aren't SAAMI specs also work...sometimes even better for specific purposes.
 
Thanks for the input. Sorry about lack of detail-
This is being built on a MN action. I can't find info from anyone online that's done this one before.

I have a six-pack of snap caps on the way to determine mag and boltface modifications that may be needed (may feed/extract reliably but rim dia is a quite a bit smaller). Don't know as yet whether this will feed from the mag esp. due to the short round size; perhaps a custom ejector, perhaps it'll be single shot if I can't make it otherwise.

To be a "plinking" rifle per the customer, barrel as short as possible, Looking at a Shilen 20 twist- customer wants as short as practical so the 16"-18" may be what we need. Constraints for the contour incl. dia of the MN receiver, the short barrel length, and the size of the boolit...Shilen told me they won't go lighter than #5 on the standard contour list for this- but I need to see what what a sporter contour would yield with 10" or so of the muzzle end lopped off, my guess it would still have plenty of wall thickness.
 
Green Mountain has some (or at least has had in the past) tapered octagonal blanks that may be large enough in diameter for a Mosin.
It would certainly add some character.
 
Back in Feb 2001 I saw an old 1962 Ruger 44 carbine for $180 on a gunshow table.

Later with some Liberty 300 gr cast bullet from the same show [think Leading at the muzzle], followed with some 240 gr JHP, I split the muzzle back like a bannana.

I took it to Lynnwood Gun, and Randy Ketchum cut off the banana peel, put that on the wall, and welded a tube on the end of my barrel. He charged me $80.

The rifle then keyholed as it did not have enough barrel with riflings.

I went back to Lynnwood guns. A customer was in there who said he collected Ruger 44 mag rifles. He said my problem was common and that there were no barrels anywhere.

I found a new old stock 444 marlin barrel at Numrich and told Randy to cut off the back of the chamber and the front half will be a 44 mag chamber [from staring at SAAMI chamber drawings].

Randy did that and welded on a gas block [all for the original $80].

I now have the heaviest and most accurate Ruger 44 carbine in the world. This muzzle will not split.

Randy has passed away, as has the man who was Liberty bullets.

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