RCBS Carbide Dies in a Lee Turret Press

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Ben_Snow

New member
Hi..

Haven't been happy with my Lee Die setup with the exception of the FCD and the Turret Press itself. Started with the 4-Die Turret set with the Lee's Powder Auto-Drum. Found the powder drum rather flimsy w/erratic measured drops, I tossed the Auto-Drum. Purchased a standalone RCBS Powder Measure/advanced Stand, and fully impressed with both the quality and accuracy of operation.

Thinking of picking up a set (3) of RCBS Carbide Dies that I found on sale. Will use these in my turret press with a long term plan of switching to an entire RCBS 'system'. After installing will have an empty 'fourth' socket in the turret press and hence my question; does the RCBS seating die also crimp, and if not should I continue to use my Lee FCD in the fourth position?

Appreciate any/all responses.
 
does the RCBS seating die also crimp, and if not should I continue to use my Lee FCD in the fourth position?
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RCBS dies for bottle-neck cases do indeed have a crimping feature. However, most handloaders of such, usually opt to adjust the die so it seats-only for bolt-action rifles. Nevertheless, the Lee Factory Crimp Die (for bottleneck rifle cartridges), is generally (at least I do), held to be a better crimp than the roll-crimp that the RCBS die will produce.
 
Sorry...Should have added, this will only be used for straight wall handgun - 357M. (at least for now)

My main goal is to replace the Lee powder-through/expander with the RCBS Expander Die. The Lee die drags/sticks on the cases when they are extracted, and generally has not been consistent with flaring the mouth. Since I no longer use the powder-through function its the easiest die to replace.

I really don't want a single seat/crimp die, so this set on sale may not be a good choice. Does RCBS offer a separate Seat die so I can continue to use my Lee FCD for crimping?
 
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Lee Dies

Ben Snow. Curious, what is your dissatisfaction with Lee dies? Many years ago I started out on a Lee 3 "holer". Made pretty good stuff, or at least it shot. I've moved up to a Dillon 550b press but still find myself using Lee dies , and the powder measure, on the Dillon press. I am just now beginning to learn of the intricacies of better dies and am always on the lookout. I've RCBS, Hornady, Redding, Pacific and Dillon. But have yet to really find a difference between them. I load mostly pistol but an occasional .223.
 
I have an RCBS "Uniflow" powder hopper. I've been using it since 1984 and it still works as good as the day it was made. So assuming yours is a similar product, I think you did well.

I'm on a Dillon 550 progressive. When I'm loading 38/357, I have three dies in my toolhead:

First is an RCBS taper crimp die - not that it matters whether it's taper or roll, since I only seat with this die.

In the second station, is another RCBS taper crimp die, and all ammo gets the taper crimp treatment.

In the third station, is my Lee FCD. Since it's a roll crimp, I may or may not engage this die. Most of my 38/357 ammo is taper crimped; in which case, the ammo goes through an unengaged FCD. The collar at the base of the die is still there to "iron out" any sidewall bulges that may occur (almost never); but the crimp part is only engaged if I'm going to roll crimp.

So that's my setup. Basically, I use RCBS dies for everything. I am very pleased with RCBS products - and they're local for me; being only about 40 miles away. But I do have a Lee FCD for every chambering I load (including 223 Rem).
 
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PolarFBear Fully agree .

On my Dillion 550B I use both Dillion Dies and RCBS a Mix . Some times you will find a Die that just works better . I load mostly 44 Mag on the Dillion and found an old RCBS taper crimp Sizer die and that is all it does . The RCBS die takes that little bump out at the base that no other die will .
 
Not trying to be a jerk, but if you can't get acceptable ammo with Lee dies, you won't get them with RCBS dies (equipment) either. Personally, I would toss the FCD, and since you are going RCBS, just get an RCBS roll crimp die (seat/crimp die w/seating stem backed off) to use in the 4th hole. I've been using a Redding Profile Crimp die for my revolver ammo for several years and they work quite well......
 
When crimping brass you need to have brass that is all the same length. Rimmed pistol brass normally uses a roll crimp. The 357, when loaded in the upper range with slow burning powders, requires a heavy roll crimp to ensure good ignition. (powders like WW296 or H110) The crimp also keeps the bullet from backing out of the case under recoil.
The key to getting a consistent crimp is to have all your brass the same length.
 
The key to getting a consistent crimp is to have all your brass the same length.
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True, however . . .

When it comes to big magnum rounds with slow, difficult to ignite propellants, consistent case length and its corollary consistent crimp, is critical for good, consistent ignitions. No doubt about it.

But as you move to lighter loads with faster propellants, it becomes less critical.

Once you're into target level and range shooter rounds with your taper crimped plated bullets, the importance of case length for a consistent crimp becomes ancillary at best. Especially the taper crimp part. If you're taper crimping, case length is likely a non-factor.

For 38/44 Special, for instance, I taper crimp most all my ammo - plated and lead. I have never, and will never trim these cases. There is no need.

I do trim my 357/44M brass; reason being, those big magnum level rounds that I load - maybe - 10% of the time ;).
 
Your press won't care what brand the dies are. Biggest advantage to RCBS dies, even used, is the warrantee. RCBS' warrantee applies to used RCBS kit too.
Whether you crimp or not really applies to what you're doing with the ammo and how hot you're loading. Most loads not fired out of a lever action don't need any crimp or only enough to hold the bullet in place.
Hasn't anything to do with ignition though. The crimp only keeps the bullet from moving under recoil.
"...WW296 or H110..." Same thing and they light with regular primers with no fuss of any kind.
 
T. O'Heir Your press won't care what brand the dies are. Biggest advantage to RCBS dies, even used, is the warrantee. RCBS' warrantee applies to used RCBS kit too.
Whether you crimp or not really applies to what you're doing with the ammo and how hot you're loading. Most loads not fired out of a lever action don't need any crimp or only enough to hold the bullet in place.
Hasn't anything to do with ignition though. The crimp only keeps the bullet from moving under recoil.
"...WW296 or H110..." Same thing and they light with regular primers with no fuss of any kind.
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The data that I have shows that for H110 and WW296 magnum primers are always suggested in the data. Even on the Hodgdon reloading site they recommend magnum primers for these powders. Here is some written advice from Winchester:
CAUTION--Loads using 296 powder require heavy bullet pull (heavy crimp). 296 powder is not suitable with light bullets. The use of 296 powder with light bullet pull (light crimp) or lightweight bullets can cause squib loads. Such loads create a hazard to both the shooter and bystander as a bullet lodged in the barrel may cause the gun to burst if not removed before the next round is fired.
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Since the supplier of these powders recommend a heavy crimp and a magnum primer I have always used the recommended practice. In the 6th printing of the Sierra manual a magnum primer is called out for all the loads tested.
While you are free to use standard primers it is not the recommended primer with these powders. I would caution reloaders to use their own judgment knowing the published recommendation of a magnum primer.
 
I purchased a Lee 357 Mag Custom Factory Crimp Die quite some time ago, which is a collet (rifle) style FCD. Since it is a collet, it is much less sensitive to case length and will not buckle the case. The SKU was 80323 but they don't always have them in stock. It does not work with .38 Special cases. You can also special order their Short Bottle Neck Collet Style Factory Crimp Die http://leeprecision.com/custom-bottleneck-handgun-factory-crimp-die.html for straight wall cartridges you wish, including .38 Special and I assume .357 Magnum.

I had trouble with the Auto Drum Powder Measure until I made a powder baffle for it. I only use it for loading .223 Rem with CFE-223. I much prefer the Auto Disk with the Auto Disk Pro upgrade kit (I like the metal base) or the Auto Disk Pro, both with the Adjustable Charge Bar for pistol loading. Very consistent with the powders I use (they did not like 700-X or Unique, in my experience).
 
Mikld wrote:
"Not trying to be a jerk, but if you can't get acceptable ammo with Lee dies, you won't get them with RCBS dies (equipment) either. "
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Mik, Mik, Mik .. just wouldn't be the same if you didn't start one of your posts that didn't include a thinly disguised insult wrapped in a disclaimer. It's a shame as it detracts from the rest of your post which was very informative. I've been practicing Zen meditation to not let this type of stuff bother me, guess I'm just not there yet! :-)
 
Response to the rest:

Yes, purchased the rcbs uniflow and the stand. Absolutely great results, no wobbling, no spilled powder, quick setup, and spot on with every drop.

As far as the die set, based on the responses have decided to purchase the three die set. Will leave my FCD in the fourth position on my turret press, and will swap with my lee taper crimp when needed.

I'm still a little fuzzy on the rcbs seating die, can it be set so it doesn't provide any crimp?

Thanks for all the responses, this has been a helpful thread .
 
(re the RCBS Uniflow) spot on with every drop.
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Evidently, you haven't tested it with Unique yet :p.

I'm mostly joking. I find that Unique can wiggle around a little more than +/- 0.1 grain with my Uniflow. Acceptable.

I'm still a little fuzzy on the rcbs seating die, can it be set so it doesn't provide any crimp?
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Yes. Absolutely. Just place a sized case in the holder, run the ram up to the top of its stroke; then screw the die body down until it just starts to impinge on the case. That is the correct die body setting if you don't want it to crimp. Lock it down there. Adjust the seater plug as needed for the correct seating depth.
 
Lee dies are among the best available.

The Lee Auto drum has worked very well for me, but I removed the lock out mechanism per the instructions.

Any three die set will include a seating die that can be adjusted to crimp. If you don't want crimping at that station, just back off the crimp adjustment. Set it with an empty case until the case mouth is unaffected. Then set the seating depth.

Don't listen to those who need to convert their inability to work with stuff into blaming it on product quality. I don't use Lee dies much because they are too tight on lead bullets. Most of my reloading is with RCBS Cowboy and lead bullets. The Lee sets come out for jacketed or plated.

The Lee turret does best with the light weight and lower center of gravity of the Lee powder measures. I use both auto disk and auto drum powder measures and have no complaints on consistency. However, I am not anal about weighing often. I have rarely caught any significant variation and have enough experience and skill to watch for any glitches in the press operation.

If you reload using lead bullets, lose the FCD.

The issue of brass sticking on the PTX in the powder measure is galling and can be relieved by washing new brass in Armor All Wash 'n Wax or, for fired brass, polishing the expander plug. I use a few swipes with a strip of fine emery cloth.
 
Ben Snow, Ben Snow, Ben Snow. FYI it's difficult to convey inflection with the written word. I can take your post as a direct insult/challenge or a tongue in cheek reply. Since it's easier to explain up front that nothing personal was meant by my post I inserted the "disclaimer". Since you chose not to use a disclaimer, I figger you intention was to call me out and dissect my post inserting your skewed interpretation. So if I put a smiley like this in my post :p, does that mean anything? Or does this one say anything about how I think about our post :rolleyes:?

BTW, I never "thinly disguise" an insult, if I think you are an obnoxious, smug a$$, I'll say so...:D.
 
Nick Wrote:
Evidently, you haven't tested it with Unique yet .

I'm mostly joking. I find that Unique can wiggle around a little more than +/- 0.1 grain with my Uniflow. Acceptable.
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Actually I haven't had much problems with Unique, +/- .2 grains max, but most are on the money. Where I DID have problems was on smaller loads of Bullseye. Was loading 38SP with 2.8gr (148gr HBWC), the hopper would jam every other throw. At first I thought the powder had found some moisture hiding in the bottom of the hopper of in the drum, but after draining and refilling I verified they were bone dry. I noticed that if I dialed the throws up to 3.5gr it eliminated the problem. I think the weight of the powder in the hopper may be contributing; just bought an RCBS baffle, will see if that helps.
 
Real Gun wrote:
The issue of brass sticking on the PTX in the powder measure is galling and can be relieved by washing new brass in Armor All Wash 'n Wax or, for fired brass, polishing the expander plug. I use a few swipes with a strip of fine emery cloth.
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Going to give that a try ! Thanks for the tip.
 
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