Raven Arms Safety on/off
- Thread starter Rmbha
- Start date
marine6680
New member
Why are we asking?
Sootch00 did a good review on the Raven 25ACP:
https://www.full30.com/video/2e4d89a0044b8b21fc8ffe899fc544c6
https://www.full30.com/video/2e4d89a0044b8b21fc8ffe899fc544c6
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My ex-wife's first gun was a Phoenix Arms Raven, purchased around 1994 or 1995 I think. It had a small sliding safety on the left side of the frame, if I remember correctly. It was fairly easy to move, so I could see it getting accidentally bumped to the off position if it were jostled a lot.
Her philosophy for carrying it was to carry it chamber empty, safety off. That way she didn't have to worry about the safety getting bumped off. She eventually moved on to a Glock 26 when we could afford it, but that Raven gave her at lot of peace of mind when walking the dog at night and whatnot, when that was all she could afford.
Her philosophy for carrying it was to carry it chamber empty, safety off. That way she didn't have to worry about the safety getting bumped off. She eventually moved on to a Glock 26 when we could afford it, but that Raven gave her at lot of peace of mind when walking the dog at night and whatnot, when that was all she could afford.
It was reasonably light, as I recall, since it is a single-action (e.g. it is fully cocked by cycling the slide, and the trigger just releases the sear). I couldn't find any technical data sheets on the MP-25, but I'm guessing it was roughly comparable to or slightly heavier than other single-action guns, e.g. Ruger Standard Model semiauto, or a single-action revolver. I saw a guesstimate of a 6-pound pull on another forum, which sounds close enough.
To clarify on the safety, my ex's was the kind that slid up and down (and locked the slide), not the older Raven Arms style that slid forward and back. it wasn't that it was so light that it would just "fall down" on its own; it was simply that in a pocket or something, the resistance of the safety could be overcome by getting snagged on something or by being bumped/pushed by a hard object. I *think* the factory manual recommended carrying without a round in the chamber and chambering a round when ready to fire, but it's been many years since I looked at it. I am pretty sure it didn't have a passive firing pin safety, as it was designed to be carried unchambered.
I have to say that it was 100% reliable (no failures of any kind), and my ex shot hers quite a bit. It was also (surprisingly) very accurate for its size, a consequence of the fixed barrel and tiny sights (very precise, but slow to acquire). Fit and finish was rather good; it wasn't sloppily made, just very bulky for its caliber and capacity.
To clarify on the safety, my ex's was the kind that slid up and down (and locked the slide), not the older Raven Arms style that slid forward and back. it wasn't that it was so light that it would just "fall down" on its own; it was simply that in a pocket or something, the resistance of the safety could be overcome by getting snagged on something or by being bumped/pushed by a hard object. I *think* the factory manual recommended carrying without a round in the chamber and chambering a round when ready to fire, but it's been many years since I looked at it. I am pretty sure it didn't have a passive firing pin safety, as it was designed to be carried unchambered.
I have to say that it was 100% reliable (no failures of any kind), and my ex shot hers quite a bit. It was also (surprisingly) very accurate for its size, a consequence of the fixed barrel and tiny sights (very precise, but slow to acquire). Fit and finish was rather good; it wasn't sloppily made, just very bulky for its caliber and capacity.
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No, if there was a round chambered then putting the safety off and pulling the trigger would fire it. Pulling the slide back to chamber a round also cocks the gun, so as soon as the slide closes then it's ready to fire if the safety is off and the trigger is pulled.
What my ex did was to make super sure it was unloaded (magazine out, chamber empty), then just insert a full magazine but not chamber a round. If she needed it, she'd pull the slide back to chamber a round, making it ready to fire, and I think the safety had to be off in order to chamber a round on hers. I think the older ones allowed the slide to be pulled back with the safety on, but I have never handled one so I don't know.
If you want something that can be safely carried with a round in the chamber, you could look at a Beretta Bobcat or Tomcat, or a Kel-Tec P32, which have additional safeties to make them drop-safe with a chambered round, and the Beretta also has a safety that's a little harder to disengage. But the Raven is a solid little gun for those on a budget.
What my ex did was to make super sure it was unloaded (magazine out, chamber empty), then just insert a full magazine but not chamber a round. If she needed it, she'd pull the slide back to chamber a round, making it ready to fire, and I think the safety had to be off in order to chamber a round on hers. I think the older ones allowed the slide to be pulled back with the safety on, but I have never handled one so I don't know.
If you want something that can be safely carried with a round in the chamber, you could look at a Beretta Bobcat or Tomcat, or a Kel-Tec P32, which have additional safeties to make them drop-safe with a chambered round, and the Beretta also has a safety that's a little harder to disengage. But the Raven is a solid little gun for those on a budget.
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It could happen, I suppose, especially if they were carrying in a pocket or purse with other stuff in it (big no-no), rather than in a protective holster or protected compartment of something. Something would still need to pull the trigger though, whether that be a negligently placed finger, something in the pocket/purse, or bumping up against something. It's hard to say without knowing the details of a particular incident.
To add to that, there are four basic rules of gun safety:
(1) Always treat a gun as if it is loaded
(2) Never allow it to point in an unsafe direction (such as at yourself or other people)
(3) Keep your finger off the trigger until actually about to shoot
(4) Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Most accidental discharges involve somebody pulling the trigger when they didn't actually intend to shoot. Sometimes that happens because somebody "thought it was unloaded" and consciously pulled the trigger, but expected a click and got a bang (see Rule 1). Or somebody was resting their finger on the trigger when they weren't actually trying to fire a shot, and accidentally put enough pressure on it to fire the gun (see Rule 3).
I have read about a couple of cases where a foreign object actually pulled the trigger, e.g. the drawstring of a jacket got into the trigger guard as the owner was holstering the gun, and the drawstring pulled the trigger as the gun was holstered. I can also see how a gun carried unprotected in a pocket and bumped up against seat belt buckles, table edges, etc. could have the trigger pulled by that contact. It would require a chain of events to disengage the safety and pull the trigger, but that possibility would make me leery of carrying a single-action gun cocked in a pocket unless it was in a rigid holster that protected the trigger and safety, and was designed for that mode of carry.
(1) Always treat a gun as if it is loaded
(2) Never allow it to point in an unsafe direction (such as at yourself or other people)
(3) Keep your finger off the trigger until actually about to shoot
(4) Always be sure of your target and what is behind it
Most accidental discharges involve somebody pulling the trigger when they didn't actually intend to shoot. Sometimes that happens because somebody "thought it was unloaded" and consciously pulled the trigger, but expected a click and got a bang (see Rule 1). Or somebody was resting their finger on the trigger when they weren't actually trying to fire a shot, and accidentally put enough pressure on it to fire the gun (see Rule 3).
I have read about a couple of cases where a foreign object actually pulled the trigger, e.g. the drawstring of a jacket got into the trigger guard as the owner was holstering the gun, and the drawstring pulled the trigger as the gun was holstered. I can also see how a gun carried unprotected in a pocket and bumped up against seat belt buckles, table edges, etc. could have the trigger pulled by that contact. It would require a chain of events to disengage the safety and pull the trigger, but that possibility would make me leery of carrying a single-action gun cocked in a pocket unless it was in a rigid holster that protected the trigger and safety, and was designed for that mode of carry.
I have one with the slide safety that I inherited from my grandma. I won't carry it. The gun was unfired when I inherited it and was NIB. Yet the safety is so loose that it can be disengaged simply by shaking it or tucking it into a pocket. It can also be accidentally re-engaged just by adjusting your grip between shots. Plus the single action trigger is very light. Because of this the gun is just plain unsafe to carry. I won't do it.
I agree about accuracy and reliability though. I've put about 2-300 rounds through it. No misfires and will group on a dinner plate at 25 yards.
Honestly though, they are junk guns. I only keep mine because it was my grandmothers.
I agree about accuracy and reliability though. I've put about 2-300 rounds through it. No misfires and will group on a dinner plate at 25 yards.
Honestly though, they are junk guns. I only keep mine because it was my grandmothers.
joey.losurdo
Inactive
That may be an accurate assessment. There were identical threads started on several other gun forums.
http://www.bing.com/search?q=+"Rmbh...LH&pq=+"rmbha"++"raven"++safety&sc=0-25&sp=-1