Rant about Kids.

K

kjm

New member
Today, at a family get-together, I got to see a distant cousin who is about 11 years old. His mother is crazy, and daddy's in prison, so he's been a ward of the state for about four years now. I last saw him two years ago, and he seemed to be OK, but today, he was slurring his speech, and completely out of it. I found out from his grandmother that they have him on anti-depressants, Ritalin, and two other mood/mind/behavior altering drugs. This made me mad as hell not just for his sake, but for all the kids who reside at that "youth ranch", and are kept in a perpetual state of chemical dependency, and are neglected as a matter of policy.
I told his grandmother that I'd love to take him fishing, or spend time with him, but she said it wouldn't do any good. He's so drugged up, that he hasn't yet learned to read, write, or compute the most simple tasks. He couldn't tell us what 8 +4 was. He is literally so full of drugs, he can't learn. It doesn't do him any good to have someone spend time with him because it is like trying to spend quality time with a drunk. The only hope I could have of reaching him is if the facility is willing to lose Federal and State money they get from having him labled as learning disabled or any of the other labels they work to have placed on their kids. What a shame. As soon as he turns eighteen, they'll let out a kid who's illiterate, inumerate, and unable to function in society. He'll be in prison by the time he's 19, and there just isn't any hope.
What really gets me mad is that if I spank my own son (to keep him from turning out like this kid's mother), my kid will be taken from me, and placed at this type of institution where if he doesn't have any problems comming in, he'll be given problems and a few will be "manufactured" for him. I wonder what legal recourse he'll have when the State system has encouraged his dependancy, illiteracy, and poor math skills? They are producing future inmates. When did psychotropic drugs replace love, discipline and time with kids as a cure for most all problems?

I just had to rant a while. I'm so mad, I can't see strait, so I'm sure very little of this makes sense.
 
kjm, this is not, I'm sure, an uncommon story these days. The government is creating its own 'dependents'. The undercurrents here could become catastrophic IMO.

Are you in a position to take him for more than a day or two? Perhaps an extended stay of a week or a month would allow you to have some really positive influence, giving him the inspiration to break from the mold.

Whatever happens, my prayers are with you and him, knowing that by the grace of God, there I go.
 
This is a *huge* issue in America today. At root, we are drugging our young men to cure testosterone poisoning. :rolleyes: The feminazis can't let boys be boys, after all. [/sarcasm mode off]

Great commentary by Jerry Pournelle on use of drugs to "cure" ADD here. Well worth reading.



[This message has been edited by JimR (edited July 30, 2000).]
 
This is a generalization: drugs are a substitute for discipline. A poor one, I might add. For some kids the problem may be partly too much sugar.

------------------
Alexander Solzhenitzyn:
"Freedom is given to the human conditionally, in the assumption of his constant religious responsibility."
 
It's wonderful that you care, though. You have my respect. And it might actually make a difference. Try taking him anyways. It may seem like it does no good, but he will remember it later. Kids like that have no concept of what a normal life is like. He may be drugged, but if there is a chance any of it gets through, it's worth it, so long as it doesn't endanger your own family. Try taking him out, take him fishing, talk to him about just "stuff", show him that everyone in the world doesn't live like that. Try to find something he is interested in.

Any chance he could stay for longer? That's a lot to take on and I understand if it's not a possibility, but you could have a chance to do something important. The government isn't going to help him, but you might be able to.

Best of luck to both of you, however it turns out.
 
wow. :(
just reading that gives me goosebumps, it's so sad. :(
Even if you don't take him out, can you call him once in a while, just to say, "Hi?"
I'll bet he'd always remember that, too, because probably not very many people ever treat him like he's special.

When I was a kid, my dad's friends got a divorce, and neither of them wanted the kids, so they shipped their 10-year old son and thirteen-year old daughter to foster care! i didn't realize then how lucky I was to have my parents and how devastating that would be to find out at ten or thirteen that neither of your parents wants you! very very very sad.
(BTW, they got back together ten years later and got eh kids....the daughter is 35, has four kids by different fathers and lives with them on welfare.)

Anyway, I admire your concern, kjm. Good luck.
 
I'd like to add some observations here. I recently transferred from a large, high needs elementary school that was high welfare/prison/gangbanger type families to a smaller, middle to upper class elementary school, predominantly white, and very involved parents. One would think I would see less "Special Ed" type students at my new school. Wrong. With the variety of cases I have been slammed with in my first month there, along with the warnings that there is a very strong Parent Advocacy group in the neighborhood, I have come to the conclusion that it is now "hip" to have a handicapped child. It is like these parents wear their child's perceived handicap as a badge for all others to admire and to get accolades for doing so much for their child. You would not believe how many of these children, and their parents, are in "Therapy". Remember when no one wanted to admit they were in "Therapy"? Not so anymore. Gee, I could save them a lot of money. You want to help your child? Try spending time with him. Take away the video games. Read a book together...ride a bike, play ball, go to a play or the symphony, take a hike, draw a picture, build a go cart. Stop trying to keep up with or surpass "The Joneses" and focus on being a family. Ooops, sorry....got on a roll there! Don't get me wrong...I love my new school and I really like the parents...I just don't understand what they are doing.

Another observation: We are seeing a rise in other "handicaps" besides ADHD and Learning Disablilities. Now it is Autism, Central Auditory Processing Disorders, Sensory Integration Deficits....I could go on and on. I can't tell you how many "Autistic" kids we have in our district. This is my 13th year, and when I started we had none. Now we are finding "Doctors" who diagnose more and more children as autistic every day. And IMHO many of these kids are no more autistic than I am. So why the diagnosis? Especially when some of these children fit the classic profile of Emotionally Disturbed....but that is a label no one wants to use. And while I understand the stigma attached to that diagnosis, we are doing these kids far more harm by not treating the ED. Many of the meds these kids are prescribed are contraindicated for an ED child. Giving Ritalin to an ED child is one of the worst things you can do to them...and yet we wonder why they can't control their behavior.

With all this over medicating and "handicapping conditions" we tend to overlook the kids who truly do need meds to function. There are kids who truly are ADHD, who need Ritalin to even perform daily activities. I know...I have seen these kids. I tend to get very involved with the families of the children I work with, and I know what they have been thru. They have exhausted every non medical avenue there is, before resorting to medication. They have ruled out food allergies (especially yeast). They periodically wean their kids off the meds to see if they can function without them or on a reduced dose. Some can, some can't. I know there are people here at TFL who have gone thru all this with their children. We need to be careful in making a blanket statement about overmedicating all children, because there are kids out there who truly do need it. But we also need to be aware that we are raising a society that seems to have a built in excuse for not being successful..."I'm handicapped." I see that as an insult to all the very successful handicapped members of society, who don't offer up excuses for their limitations, but find ways to overcome them.


kjm....it does seem to be about dollars and cents and not about people, doesn't it? :( I hope you can help your cousin...he needs you in his life.
 
BRACE FOR RANT!!!
kjm,
You're right on the money. It is easier to keep the kid doped up until he turns 18 and then he becomes someone else's problem. What a waste of a human being. Bless you for caring enough to get upset.
I have seen and taught kids who absolutely needed meds to even them out so they could function... at least temporarily. Ritalin is WAY overproscribed around here and almost never backed up with allergy testing and strategies for focusing/functioning. Some parents have taken their kids to private training and testing and the results were dramatic but not everyone has the $ or care. Lots of parents are happy to do the same- dope their kids until they turn 18 and become someone else's problem.
I remember a kid named Jeff who went to school with me. He was a complete squirrel, a teacher's nightmare. I was one of his only friends since he was so out of control. His grades were poor. One day they tested him for allergies and they found out he was allergic to something in milk. All those milk breaks in elementary school sent him through the roof. After that he was the calmest, nicest guys and got good grades.
Ottergal, I am right there with you. If you have initials in your student file (ADHD, ED, BD...) then you can get away with anything short of murder. I wish I was exaggerating. Plenty of parents want their kids labeled because then they can blame something besides their kids (the initials) or us for not accomodating him/her. Never mind the kid never did the homework, showed up for class, or did a lick of work. Yeah, I have also seen kids who legitimately needed help not get it because we get swamped with turkeys.
Okay, I am not posting/ranting any more tonight.

------------------
Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
Wow, Otter, that is really sad about the "autism" label. I always thought autism was when kids were compltely non-communicative and could not relate at all to the world around them.
Speaking of over-diagnosing, my son is about one year behind his peers on communication skills, ie, speaking and understanding.
The reason he didn't understand much was because he just wuld not sit still long enough to listen.
One of the first things one of my co-workers said was, "It sounds like he's ADHD." :rolleyes:
I said, "No, I think it's just that he's TWO!"
I took him for an evaluation at a speech therapist. She said that since he was progressing in his communcation skills and he could focus on a task, he did not have any attention disorders. He's just a little slow at speaking.
Giving a three- or four-year old boy Ritalin is just plain silly in most cases, I would guess. They're little boys! :rolleyes:
 
The most disturbing thing about this is that I feel like this is a challenge God has thrown at my feet. I can't walk away from him, nor can I trust the state to continue to ruin a perfectly normal, bright kid, because his parents were Shi*, and his life thus far has been the same.
Labels are crutches. I was a terrible student, spent at least as much time in the principals office as I did in class, and after 8 years in the Army, when I was out-processing, and getting the standard Persian Gulf War syndrome check, they diagnosed me with ADHD. Aside from a few minor problems like keeping steady on task (which the military taught me), and keeping focused (which the military taught me w/o the use of drugs), I have become a happy, well adjusted adult. I never once took ritalin, nor did I take anything else to control behavior. Most of these kids aren't any worse than I ever was in class, but they are drugged to the gills.
The problem with taking on this child, is that family connection. I DO NOT want his mother anywhere near him. I WILL NOT allow his father to come near him. His mother locked him in a trunk, and at times has bit him, yes, bit him (her way of discipline). She has caused 90% of the child's problems and I wont allow her to disrupt my family so she can continue to disrupt his life.
I also have to contend with the state of Texas, and all the Army of bureaucrats that will decend upon my household if I do what's right for this child. He doesn't need meds, he needs rehab. He needs close and strict supervision, and a consistent home. He may even need physical forms of punishment (though I'd have to consult with a professional or professionals to see what he can bear emotionally). The best hope for him is to keep him a ward of the State, and therefore continue to have his every expense paid for (including a college education) by the state, as we can't afford to feed another mouth. We could foster him, but that would mean State inspections, and reporting to the very people who are doing their damndest to screw him up.
I don't know what to do, but prayer usually helps in these situations. If you pray, pray for him (Sammy), and pray for me. The boy needs just one person willing to do right by him, and I believe that my wife and I can. We only need to figure this thing out to his best advantage. I can handle the kid's problems, and fix most of them, but I'll have to fight the bureaucrats all the way.
 
Usually, state custody ends when a child turns 18 or graduates from high school. So, are you sure about the college tuition? I'd check into that.
Are you sure the child has no parental contact now? Very often, visits are sanctioned unless parental rights have been severed by the courts.
Perhaps with good legal advice, there may be a way!
 
Oh, I almost forgot. Do not -- I repeat, do not -- even hint at any form of corporal punishment to a social worker or any member of a state agency. It may well be that this should be a part of his upbringing, but you will shoot yourself in more than the foot if you bring it up. Perhaps a private therapist, carefully chosen, but not a social worker.
 
I wasn't meaning to spank by physical punishment. Sometimes those kids are so screwed up, you have to physically restrain them to keep them from doing damage to themselves or your property. Bear hugs generally do this. Spankings work fine on a "normally adjusted kid", but I would be hesitant to use the method on a child who already is a psychological mess.
In Texas, a college students tuition is free if he is a ward of the state, and has no parents to claim for Federal Student Aid. We have a friend who became an orphan in High-school, and he moved into our house his last year. When he went to college, he was drowned in grants, and in scholarships, plus the free tuition. He of course was an excellent student unlike the child we're talking about who cannot even read on a 3rd grade level at 11.
There's no doubt he'll need all sorts of help, but my wife is a school teacher, and is great at helping "those" kids. We have already banned the TV from our house so our own son will have to resort to reading books for entertainment. We collect a lot of older kids books (older by published date not older kids). Right now we're in a desperate search for an old copy of Uncle Remus books that haven't been politicized nor made PC. Reading is an excellent way to pass the time.
I really believe that 99.9999999% of the children out there need only a few things and that most parents are too stupid to realize it because they read all the "parenting magazines" and books.

1. They need to feel like they belong to something ie: family. They need to have responsibilities to the larger group to which they belong. They need to have a feeling that they get something back in return for what they give to the group. For instance, We'll be living on our family ranch before too long, and then the child would be able to have specific priveleges in exchange for doing specific tasks. You can't ride the horses if you don't properly groom them or take care of the saddles. If the child wants something they have to learn to work for it. I don't believe in giving anything away for free. If any of my kids want a new bike, or something else, I will give them a lawn mower or some other method that they can use to make the money to obtain what they want. I will never just give them what they want. I expect children to contribute to the family, and they should expect that their contributions will be rewarded and welcomed.
2. They need strict discipline. Not punishment, but discipline to form them into functioning adults. Strict just means that they know that if they do what they know to be wrong, correction will be swift and sure. It doesn't always have to be real painful or harsh, but it always has to be quick and sure. We have always corrected wrong speech patterns with a correct usage, and then we make the child repeat the correct term. We do this every time we hear the wrong usage, and while it doesn't hurt the child, there is a quick and sure correction to the problem. Before long, the child begins to speak correctly because he doesn't want to be corrected. Before much longer, the correct speech becomes habit. I also (due to my Southern upbringing)require a child to say please, thank-you, yes sir, no-sir/ma'am, and show other forms of respect like looking someone in the eye when speaking. This is what is meant by discipline. Sometimes when a child challenges the authority, you have to physically make him do what he wouldn't otherwise comply with willingly. If I tell a child to go to his room, and he refuses, then I physically take him there, close the door, and wait until he comes out and do it all over again. With a "normally adjusted child", I'd probably just spank him, but with a child with severe emotional problems, you have to be careful.
I understand why the state doesn't want their delinquents spanked, but sometimes you have to to maintain a position of authority in the child's life. This kid's grandparents do spank him when he goes completely nuts, and when he threatens to tell on them, they just say: "go right ahead, and then we won't be allowed to visit you anymore" (they're the only ones who he can count on to ever pick him up and take him out regularly, so he doesn't dare report them). Anyway this isn't meant to be a discussion of his discipline, but I posted to vent about how screwed up the state is regarding kids in it's care.
 
It sounds like your home would be the best place this kid could ever hope for! I wish you the best of luck in whatever it is you decide to do for him.
That's amazing about college in Texas. How incredibly fortunate those kids are, in that sense.
My warning about social workers comes from working in the adjoining suite of offices from a bunch of them. All they need to hear is the work spank, or something akin to it, and ..... :eek:
 
Good luck, KJM. You're right, it will be an uphill battle.

Otter said everything else I was going to say with greater authority from longer experience, except this:

If you decide he should stay at the "ranch," don't believe that it doesn't matter whether you take him fishing or show him kindness. I had a boy at camp last year who I believed was just a rambunctious pre-adolescent boy reacting normally to his world. He was 12 years old and his father was gone, possibly dead. His mother was so flighty and frankly strange that I never could find out from her exactly what was going on with the father over an entire summer. Whatever was going on, Kyle did NOT like it. And as I said, he was a pre-adolescent boy who didn't fit in with the other pre-adolescent boys, which is enough to send any normal pre-teen off the deep end by itself.

Now, Kyle WAS an extreme case. He threatened his peers constantly and occasionally there were scuffles. He threatened me occasionally, sometimes telling me he would "blow your head off." The catch was that when I made him take his medicine, little changed. It was some form of Ritalin but there was another depressant or sedative as well. All it did was slow him down and make him very sluggish and sleepy. He would sit at picnic tables for hours while I tried to get him to play with the rest of the group, and make the same old threats but more slowly. It was terrible to watch, and I sometimes tried to let him slide out of taking the medicine, but he'd been taking it so long the side effects of withdrawal or whatever it was were intense and nasty.

The point is, he never gave me any outward sign that I mattered a bit--except that he rarely left my side even when he wasn't in my group. And I'm told that this year, his last year at camp, he started the summer by asking why I wasn't there. I think I did matter to him, if only a little. Your nephew may be more heavily medicated than Kyle, or less, but even if you can't teach him to read it'll still be better for him if you do as much for him and with him as you can, including at least the attempt to teach right from wrong. I was never Kyle's buddy since I had to ride him so hard all summer, but I'm glad I did.
 
Cindy, someone said that about my kid too (the ADHD) because she was running around for 20 minutes straight. God forbid a kid should have ENERGY! Frankly, I would worry if I saw a bunch of kids just sitting there zoning out instead of playing. :rolleyes

kjm, your heart is the right place, give that kid a call, try and take him out. No one can say for sure that he can't learn, it takes one caring person to prove them all wrong. Best of luck!

------------------
Sandys' Homepage
RKBA forums
We are as one as we all are the same fighting for one cause -Metallica
 
Ottergal,

I am perfectly willing to make a blanket statement about ADHD. As a first grader at the ripe old age of five, my Mother was told I was afflicted and I was prescribed Ritalin. I still remember those little red pills to this day. Do you know they have the same phisiological effect as cocaine on the human body? Mom, deciding to read up on the then (1978) new "wonder drug for hyper kids", found this out and went through the roof at the gubmint school phychiatrist and teacher that "suggested" the drug. Mom finally (she had to go clear to the county board) got permission to sit in on my classes. Time and time again, she watched me finish what should have been one hours worth of work in fifteen minutes. Keep in mind that I was (mostly) respectful, got (mostly) straight A's, and wasn't violent. (In fact, I only ever got into one fight through all seventeen years of schooling.) She then had to go all the way back to the county board to get me placed in advanced classes (the teachers/psychiatrist were now embarrassed and didn't want my Mom to win). In short, KJM, I wouldn't find you morally culpable if you outright kidnapped the boy just to get him straightened out and off the gov't sanctioned drugs. Not advocating it, mind you, I just wouldn't blame you.
I don't think there is such a thing as ADD. You show me an objective criteria for diagnosis and I might change my mind. As for anyone who would say "Well my child needs those drugs. He/She is helped by them!", all I can say is that I'm sure steroids would help his/her performance physically. Do you advocate using them?

------------------
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?
 
This is just my opinion but I think some parents go the medication route because it is easier to drug kids than to raise them and interact with them.

When I was in kindergarten I was diagnosed as "learning disabled" because I wouldn't sit still in room full of 75 other kids and toys. My parents promptly put me in a private school and I never had another problem. Today it would have been ADHD and some meds being suggested. Raising kids is hard, as I am just beginning to learn with a toddler of my own. A parent who doesn't want to take the time to raise an emotionally healthy child may well grasp at the excuse of some sort of mental dysfunction to explain why junior just won't listen or behave.

Don't get me wrong. I know very well that problems like we are discussing are real. But it seems odd that all of the sudden the numbers of children diagnosed are skyrocketing while the social support structure for healthy families is being frayed and stretched every day.
 
Keep in mind that public schools receive additional funding for each child who is diagnosed with a disability or a learning disorder. Those children are set up with an "IEP" (Individual Education Plan)-- these are counted like home runs. The more convincing they can make it, the more justification it gives them.
So, the greater the numbers, the greater the dollars received. :mad:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top