Range Practice/Ammo Questions

J

Jeff456

Inactive
Hi. I'm new here since January and have been doing some reading. Lots of helpful info. I'm fairly new to having a handgun and have some questions that I have not seen the answer to while reading the forums.

We have had one session of private range time with an NRA range master who is also a friend. We shot our Ruger 40 cal p94 as well as several 9mm semi autos, 38 revolvers, and 22 semi autos that he provided to get a feel for the different weapons.

I have since acquired a Beretta Storm PX4 9mm since the 40 cal was too large of a frame for my wife and kids to handle comfortably. I also intend to get a revolver of some sort in the future and probably a 22 just for cheap range shooting and fun.

We primarily bought the gun for home defense and I also intend to add at least a shotgun to what we have since I understand that is likely to be the best choice for a home invasion situation.

So my questions are:

1. When buying ammo there are different grains available. How important is it to match the practice ammo to the size of what will actually be used for home defense? Using JHP for HD and FMJ for range practice.

2. Does it make a difference, other than the cost, to use JHP verses FMJ for range practice? Is it a good idea to use both at least to get a feel for how they feel when fired, if different at all? And do the ranges typically care if you are shooting hollow point or FMJ?

3. I think that the ranges here will limit, either by rules or by the number of people at the range, how much we can do in practice scenarios, but I would like to practice dealing with stove pipes, FTF, Squibs or the like. I would appreciate any links anyone could provide either to video or a thread on the forum with good, thorough information concerning how to practice for these types of situations.

Thanks for any help!

Jeff
 
Welcome to TFL. There's only so much you will be able to do at a range in live fire practice.
If your new to handgun shooting, the first thing to learn is how to shoot. Fundamentals come first. Proper grip, stance, sight alignment and trigger control. Get comfortable with your gun. Learn to shoot two handed, one handed. Both left and right.
A great way to learn fundamentals, is to find an IDPA or USPSA match at a local club near you and go shoot. You can only do so much standing in a stall shooting paper.
Some guys like to do a lot of dry fire drills, I've got better things to do. I'm all about live fire. That said, dry fire can help.

As far as ammo, find some SD ammo that works in that particular gun. Practice with FMJ. I see no need to constantly shoot premium ammo at paper.
124-5 grain 9mm is fine for SD. {IMO} Shoot 115gr FMJ for practice. You won't notice much, if any difference in feel. Same for the .40.
If you feel more comfortable with a shotgun, by all means buy one. I don't have a HD shotgun, I'm just fine with a handgun in close quarters.

Many guys train like their going to war, that's just not me. Besides, nobody knows how they'll handle a life and death situation. I've tried to make myself mentally tough in the event I need to kill someone without hesitation.
 
Just about every training organization sells videos.
If you do a web search for them, there will be enough to fill a library.
There's also a lot of good training videos on the web.
Guntalk.tv has a bunch, some are free to watch and others require a subscription.
Youtube.com and myoutdoors.tv also have plenty.
Just be sure to find the ones by the real trainers, and not some guy who got a camera and gun for his birthday.
Do searches for folks like Rob Pinkus, Clint Smith, Jerry Miculek, Tod Jarrett, Tiger McKee, Matt Burkett.
 
For 9mm carry I like the 147gr offerings - Ranger T, Golden Sabre and HST, but I can't find cheap practice ammo in 147gr, practice ammo is mostly all 115gr.

I don't think it makes a difference. What I do is mostly fire 115gr, but I will shoot 9 or 10 rounds of the 147gr to cap my practice session. I don't think you can see a difference in FMJ or JHP in practice. You may see a slight difference between 115gr and 147gr as far as where the bullet impacts - I haven't noticed it myself but others have written that one bullet weight or another stikes a little low or a little high out of thier pistol.

You can get dummy rounds or SnapCaps for practice clearing malfuctions / stoppages.

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The A-Zooms are probably the best for doing both clearing drills and dry firing - the ST Action Trainers don't really stop the firing pin/striker.

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I don't know how you'd practice for squibs - it's mostly being able to hear an odd report, or possibly feel a light recoil and clearing it involves a wooden dowel and a hammer :eek:
 

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Jeff456 said:
1. When buying ammo there are different grains available. How important is it to match the practice ammo to the size of what will actually be used for home defense? Using JHP for HD and FMJ for range practice.

2. Does it make a difference, other than the cost, to use JHP verses FMJ for range practice? Is it a good idea to use both at least to get a feel for how they feel when fired, if different at all? And do the ranges typically care if you are shooting hollow point or FMJ?
Click to expand...
I think my way of looking at this addresses both of these questions, so bear with me if I get overly pedantic (a personal failing).

In general, whether you are dealing with FMJ ammo or JHP ammo, the weight of the bullet ("grains") affects velocity, which affects how much the bullet will drop between the muzzle and the target. As a practical matter, at self-defense distances (21 feet and less) the difference will be so minor as to be inconsequential. But, if you want to practice with something that behaves like your self-defense ammo (which is always a good idea), you need to find something that shoots to the same point of aim as your self-defense ammo. Since most JHP "personal defense" ammunition is loaded "hotter" (faster, higher pressure) than less expensive FMJ range ammo, you really can't just go by the bullet weight. You really need to try the ammo out in your gun and see where it hits relative to your point of aim.

Once you find something that shoots to the same point of aim as your carry ammo, then there's the issue of whether it generates more recoil and/or more muzzle flash or muzzle blast.

Using myself as an example (good or bad example, let's not go there), I carry 1911s in .45 Automatic. My chosen self-defense ammunition is Golden Saber, mostly because I haven't yet found a 1911 it won't feed in reliably. Golden Saber is available in both 230-grain (which matches the standard FMJ ammo the 1911 was designed for) and 185-grain. I use the 230-grain because it behaves more like over-the-counter 230-grain FMJ practice ammo. In fact, I reload for practice ammo and I could make my handloads mimic any JHP on the shelf, but I'm old-fashioned and don't see any reason to reinvent the wheel or fix something that isn't broken.
 
Thank you for the welcome and for the great replies. The question about the ammo came to me while looking at the choices on the shelf and I figured with the different grains and FPS ratings that I should figure out what I needed to be doing before starting to buy ammo.

Our friend that took us shooting went over a lot including making us shoot weak handed and in several different stances. He also worked on grip and explained the different things we needed to be aware of when handling a handgun. He was a paratrooper as well as being trained at several military schools and the blackwater school. He knows his stuff and is a great teacher. I just cant have him there non-stop to field all the questions a new gun owner faces. We are supposed to get together again before too long to do some more training as well as finish our CCW permit. He is just very busy traveling with work.

One of the first things I bought were the a-zoom dummy rounds just to get the feel for the guns when we couldn't go to the range. Unfortunately they can't mimic a lot of what is going on with a semi-auto so the range seems the only way to get a real feel of the gun.

Thanks for the names to look for on the youtube videos. I watched a bunch to start with but after the training session with our friend I noticed that a lot of what is on there are people doing things that are not necessarily in the interest of safety or good technique. Having good names to look for will be a nice help.

The reason I mentioned a shotgun is that I know several police and sheriff officers and without fail when I talk about HD guns they say a 12 guage is the preferred weapon. I guess one for us being novice and the accuracy factor is not as great if you can just aim it in the general direction and be more likely to make a hit.

Our friend also said that in his experience when they were making an assault on an unknown location and he was the point man the shot gun was his preferred weapon. He said that for one when they encountered a BG and that shotgun went off there was no need to tell the guy at the back of the line it was going down because everyone knew it was happening at the instant that gun went off. He also said the noise and bright light was a huge factor in taking control of the occupants because it is so overwhelming. He also said he could pull the trigger and just pump the foregrip every time he needed a round. He said a shotgun going off in an enclosed space is something you will never ever forget.

Thanks again for the replies!

Jeff
 
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He said a shotgun going off in an enclosed space is something you will never ever forget.
Click to expand...

I would whole heartedly agree with that statement. The shotgun is an awsome close range weapon. It would be like shooting a .357 magnum in a closet.
That said, don't fool yourself thinking you don't have to aim a shotgun at SD ranges. The pattern stays small and tight, even with an open choke. But if you hit your target, you'll never hear another word out of them.
 
a PUMP action shot gun is the single best home defense weapon you can own.
The good lord willing, when you rack that first round, there is not a human on earth that does not know what that sound is. It is the hand of god tapping you on the shoulder, excuse me you are about to be with me, let me show you the door.

It doesnt really matter the caliber, I prefer a 20 gauge as I do not want to penetrate more than one interior wall, remember the object is to kill the bad guy, not the family in the next room.
 
I was trying to quote some posts and i do not see a "quick post" button that they talk about in the FAQ section. I have the "edit" button in all of my posts but the only other button I see is the "reply" button at the top and bottom of the thread. Am I missing something?

Sauergrapes "That said, don't fool yourself thinking you don't have to aim a shotgun at SD ranges."

Yea, I didn't word that very well. I meant that in the instance of having that longer barrel of a shotgun it is easier for a novice to tell where they are aiming verses the short barrel of a handgun.

Dave9969 "when you rack that first round, there is not a human on earth that does not know what that sound is"

I think that was one of the other points they were making. The fear and intimidation factor possibly helping you take control of the situation when someone hears that round being chambered. The bad thing with that could be them hearing it and telegraphing your actions to them.

Hopefully all that will ever come of any of this is that we will enjoy some range time together and become better shooters.

jeff
 
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