Raising point of impact 250gr 45 Colt loads

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IrvJr

New member
Hi Folks,

I have some fixed sighted revolvers (Ruger new Vaquero and Italian colt clones) that I reload for.

I use Unique powder and 250gr Rainier ballistic (copper plated) or cast lead bullets.

I have been loading 45 Colt for these guns towards the low end of the pressure scale. I use the low (close to starting) values from my reloading manual (speer) for the powder charge weight. The loads are accurate and shoot well from my guns.

However, I'm interested in trying to move the point of impact of my loads up a little to match the point of impact for factory 255 gr loads (I bought a couple of boxes of Winchester 255 gr lead nose cartridges). If I increase the amount of powder used per charge, will this help raise the point of impact? should I be able to get close to the same point of impact with my 250 gr loads by increasing the charge size (while still remaining in the safe limits as specified by the loading manual)?

Thanks in advance
 
If I increase the amount of powder used per charge, will this help raise the point of impact?
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Nope...just the opposite. If it were a rifle, shooting at 100 yards or more, increasing the velocity would raise the point of impact, but with a handgun the bullet would exit the barrel sooner as the barrel rises in recoil and would strike the target lower.
 
Find your most accurate/usable load combination first.
Then file the front sight to come within 4-5" of that at 25 yards.

Use Ohio Elevation* estimates after that to keep your options
open for later/finer adjustment as time goes on.




*aot Kentucky Windage ;)
 
Pistols - Higher the velocity, the lower the point of impact



(This, of course, does not apply when you get way out there into bullet drop distances.)
 
In shooting 45 Colt, especially if you are looking for a mild/low recoil plinking (or CAS/SASS) load, you should try a faster powder than Unique. You won't get as complete combustion of Unique in mild loads. Try Trail Boss, Red Dot, 700x, Bullseye or another fast powder. With these faster powders, you can also drop down to a 200g bullet for less cost and recoil.
 
Thanks all for the replies and helpful info.

I'll try lowering the charge and see if I can find a combo that hits about the same as the factory load (if possible).

I'll also try a different powder - thanks for the tip... I have noticed a fair amount of unburnt Unique powder with some of my loads (I load them on the light end). I do have a jar of Trailboss that I will test out and see if I can develop a nice load for my revolvers.
 
If you play with powder burn rate and charge weight you can get some effect on POI.Better or worse? I don't know.Try!
Given the big 45 case,not every powder is suitable

You might see what trailboss does.

As has been mentioned,you do have the backup plan of filing the sight.

You also may want to consider,are you using a 6 oclock hold on a bullseye?

If you are hitting at you 6 oclock hold...It might not be shooting low,if you use a center hold.
 
This is the main reason I'm not a big fan of fixed sighted guns, although I have several.

Fixed sights made decent sense 100+ years ago, when adjustable sights were all "Target" type, sat up high on the frame, and were rather fragile. And, when ALL the ammo from every ammo maker was essentially the same bullet weight and velocity.

Personally I would recommend NOT TOUCHING THE SIGHTS with a file, dremel or any cutting tool, until, and unless you have decided that you are only going to shoot that one load from that that gun for the rest of your life!

And, you can be reasonably assured of being able to get that one load for the rest of your life.

I think its much better to use "hold off" (Kentucky windage) to get your hits where you want them, simply for the reason that if you file the sights to zero a specific load where you want (assuming you can), then if you ever shoot anything else, you are going to have to hold off, anyway.

Best is adjustable sights, where a few clicks with a screwdriver solves the issue, and a few clicks back gets you back to where you were, and this can be repeated endlessly.

File the sights, and you are stuck, essentially. Yes, you can fairly easily take more metal OFF, if you find you need to, but putting metal back ON is a major chore.

For you specific issue, I've been shooting Unique with the 250gr SWC for over 30 years without any issues, but then my loads start at 8gr and my personal favorite is 10gr. These are not on the light end.

You want a bullet 10% heavier to hit in the same spot, higher than what you are currently shooting it at. To do this, you need to reduce the speed.

This sounds contrary to logic, but actually is not. Because we grip the pistol well below the line of the bore, recoil rotates the gun in our hand, raising the barrel when fired. This movement begins as soon as the bullet starts moving.

The slower bullet spends more time in the (now rising) barrel, and so hits higher on the close range pistol target than the faster bullet.

SO, to make your 250 hit higher, you actually need to slow it down, and Unique is not the best choice for very light loads. Its strong suit is medium to medium heavy loads. For "powderpuff" (aka cat sneeze, aka cowboy action) loads, choose a faster powder, but beware of the risks of a double charge!!!

The big .45 Colt case will swallow up a double (or even triple) charge of Bullseye, 231, or other fast powder without giving you any warning signs, where a double charge of a slower powder will fill or even overflow the case. SO, caution and diligence on your part are important.

Trail boss sounds like a plan, and while I have some, somewhere, I've never personally used it. But it is extremely bulky for its weight (a "one pound" can of Trail Boss is 12oz of powder in the same space as 16oz of Unique...)

I understand it was specifically made this way to fill up the old black powder cases and be safe doing it.

Certainly worth testing for what you want.
 
44's counsel is why I recommended finding your Go-To load first, the filing the sight to
within 4-6" below (in my case) a 6 o'clock hold at/on a standard 25 yard NRA pistol bull.

That gets you first-and-foremost something workable**, still leaves you with excess
sight height to fiddle with later, and still further options downstream if/as loads change.



** a foot and a half low (which is how many fixed-sight SAA's are OEM-equipped)... "ain't workable" :mad:
 
I have better luck changing bullet weight to change POI on fixed sighted handguns. I'd try a 300 gr bullet at the same velocity and see how they do. A faster bullet shots lower than a slow one due to barrel dwell and recoil. With powder puff loads, there is little or no recoil recoil and thus sometimes barrel dwell is a moot point because the barrel isn't rising during the shot. Increasing the powder charge from "the low end of the pressure scale" to mid level loads or above.may increase recoil and thus raise POI using the same bullets, especially in a caliber using low velocity ammo.
 
With powder puff loads, there is little or no recoil recoil and thus sometimes barrel dwell is a moot point because the barrel isn't rising during the shot. Increasing the powder charge from "the low end of the pressure scale" to mid level loads or above.may increase recoil and thus raise POI using the same bullets, especially in a caliber using low velocity ammo.
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I will admit that I had not considered this point. Probably because I don't shoot very light loads. However, there is always some barrel rise, even if it doesn't seem like it to us from the shooters point of view. Whether it is enough to do what you want, or not, is another matter.

Yes, increasing the charge to increase barrel rise, to raise the point of impact might work, theory says it could (compared to the POI of a powderpuff load), in practice, you will just have to try it, and see.

The standard advice about faster bullets hitting lower is a comparison based on standard (service) level loads, and above, where a certain amount of barrel rise is a given.
 
Me and my Vaquero

My main handgun is a 4-5/8" barreled Vaquero in 45 Colt. I have put thousands and thousands of rounds through it with great variety of powders and bullets. A longer barreled version might behave differently, but in my experience with this revolver, it doesn't matter at all whether it's an 800 fps target load or a 1,400 fps, "RUGER ONLY", velocity, they all impact to the same point of aim at 25 yards, IF THE BULLET IS THE SAME WEIGHT. With a fixed-sight revolver, it's important to decide which bullet weight you can commit to. I want my bullets to weigh at least 240 grain and prefer them at 255 grains. Lighter bullets will shoot low and heavier ones will shoot high. I have used a lot of different powders and currently still do. I have four favorites for different load intensities. In the 45 Colt, Unique is still the standard, all-around powder by which other powders are judged. A fairly standard load that can be found in many reloading manuals is 8.5 grains of Unique under bullets of 250 grains. In mine, it's a fairly mild load but considered near maximum in other types of revolvers. You will need to file the front sight to regulate for your chosen load. But be careful; it's easy to take off too much and a lot harder to put it back on. Been there, done that!
 
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