Rail killer causes fear - drunk shot.

A

AR BLACK

New member
I heard on the news last night about this - happened in Seikeston, MO, I think (may of been Cape Girardeau, MO).

A very drunk person was dropped off at the wrong house and tried to get in. She (I think a woman) was beating on the door and yelling. The couple that was home called the cops and told the person to leave. They then loosed at least four shots through the door.

The couple live near the RR tracks and "thought it was the Rail Killer - Rameriz". I don't know if the person they shot died or not. I'll try to get more details..

anyone know of this?
 
I am in IL and heard on the news the other day that these rail killers were here. There were 2 people involved, and I am pretty sure that 1 was caught. That name Rameriez sounds familiar, I think thats the guy they were still looking for. I didnt see the news last night so I am not sure if thats the person they were looking for. Are these the same guys that were killing in Texas?
 
Ramarez has been all over the news, he's even on the FBI's 10 most wanted list.

He killed two people last week in Gorham, IL, located on the Mississippi river, about 60 - 90 miles south of St. Louis. They found fingerprints and DNA. He "rides the rails" and is protrayed as a serial killer. There have been several "sightings" in Souther Illinois.

As one gun shop owner was on the news "I haven't had an increase in sales, but I'll bet everyone is pulling their guns out and loading them up." (along with other gun-owners-portrayed-as-hillbillys mentality).

As far as I know, they are only looking for one killer, yes, they think he killed in Texas and Kentucky.
 
I live across from train tracks in Arkansas that have slow and stopped trains on them regularly. There are boxcar riders getting off all the time. My wife and I are always on high alert. I only answer the door (with a cocked and locked .45) for people I know.

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"GottaShoot30, GottaShoot27, GottaShoot23, GottaShootKimber - I just wish I had more time"
 
aw bluesman, a man after my own heart!! i always go to the door w/ weapon in hand. oh, you say i'm paranoid?? maybe, but i'm still alive ;)

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what me worry?
 
There's three of us. Usually whoever is at the door never sees I'm armed. Though I did "train" the UPS man not to try the doorknob. ;)
 
Ok guys I may be the outsider here, but I dont get why you all have a gun in your hand when you answer the door. Where do you live? I dont own one as you may know, but if someone rings my doorbell the first thing I do is look out the window to see who it is, if it is someone I know I will answer it, if it is someone I dont know I just dont answer it. I am home with my daughter all day usually, if my husband is home he is passed out drunk so he will not provide protection, even if he is awake a wind of air could knock him down, am I afraid, nope. I have alot of neighbors that are right next to me, we all are close and keep a watchout for eachother. If someone were to knock at the door late at night and I didnt know who it was i would either call the cops or call one of the neighbors, if they are trying to get in then I do both but call the neighbor with the gun. Yes, I would be a little more frightned if someone were to try breaking in, but I am not scared when my doorbell rings. I dont think there is nothing wrong if thats what you chose, I just dont get it. Of course you are more protected than I but I guess I have been raised without guns therefore have other means of protection. I have a metal pipe stashed in the closet near the door, but not once did I need it. Just curious, sorry to intrude. :)
 
Miss D: Call the cops and the neighbor with the gun????? If the neighbor gets there a few seconds before the cops, who stands a very good chance of being shot by accident? Also,a heavy pipe can be considered a lethal weapon. Use of such is,in the eyes of the law, use of lethal force, exactly like using a gun. The gun is a more positive choice than the pipe.
I don't mean to give you a hard time here. It can be confusing at times as far as what choices to make. It may be a safer idea all around to avoid the middle man (the neighbor with the gun) and arm yourself. After all when you are in trouble, often you are the only one there to make a difference.

By the way, I live in an upper middle class suburban neighborhood. The only crime we have here is the occasional juvinile prank type of crime. Sometimes I too answer the door armed. My choice of arms varies though according to how I am dressed. Most would consider my neighborhood a safe area. I consider it easy pickings, due to the false sense of security everyone has. I used to live in a neighborhood where no one locked their doors. That changed when a young girl was kidnapped and murdered. Nobody could believe it could happen in such a nice neighborhood. First rule is always be aware of your surroundings, and take nothing for granted.

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Hal, I see your point but I am not ready to own a gun yet. I personally feel safe in my home, yes there is a chance that something could happen, I am well aware of that. I just have a pipe there just for an emergency, I feel it is better that nothing. Of course a gun would be more effective, I was just saying what I personally do here at my home. No its not the best protection thats for sure but at the present time I am not used to guns yet and wouldnt feel comfortable having one here for many reasons. I had a real bad experience years back with a gun and am just starting to snap out of it. Perhaps in the future I will get one but for now my pipe will have to do and I just pray I will never need it. Dont worry about the hard time, I can take just about anything :)
 
Miss D: Yes, I am aware of the event you refer to. Just because some of us choose not to post at *the other place* doesn't mean we don't visit. Jeff and Constable are doing quite fine there. ;)

I realize you may not be at the point you feel comfortable with a gun. I am not trying to push you into an area where you don't feel comfortable. I do think you give the gun a little too much credit as more than a simple object. If the tragedy had occured in a game of chicken using cars,would you feel the same about a car as you do a gun? What about a motorcycle? This is one I can relate to quite easily. My best friend was killed in a motorcycle accident in 1975. I parked my bike and haven't ridden since. I blamed the motorcycle, and I largely blamed myself. I was the one that encouraged him to begin rideing. In retrospect, to blame an inanimate object is a waste of time. I should have been looking beyond the motorcycle, and asked why he felt the need to sit in a bar for 8 hours before his final ride home. I also have lost many friends and family members to drugs. some are dead, some are just screwed up beyond immediate help. I still have a problem when people promote free use of drugs, but I realize the deeper meaning of why the abuse occurs.

From reading many of your posts, I gather you are a somewhat at a loss as to why there is such opposition to gun control. I suggest you hang around and read some of the 2nd amendment references. I also suggest you look into some of the supposed facts that the anti self defence groups put out. When cornered and confronted with the truth, the "It's for the children" phrase comes out.

If a gun is not an option, you may want to consider some other means of protection. There are several other options.

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Miss D, it's a habit i formed years ago, when,...well i formed it a long time ago.... it's been known that sometimes a bg(bad guy)will appear at your door acting as a repair man or some such thing to get access into your house. sometimes they don't even act like they're anything, they just wait till you get to the door, bust in, and you're had before you know it. is it a little paranoid? probably, but that's the way i do things. people i know usually call before comming over, which means whoever is at my door is uninvited, therefore until i determine otherwise, they are a possible threat. the boy scouts say, " always be prepared". :)

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what me worry?




[This message has been edited by longhair (edited June 25, 1999).]
 
As the old saying goes, "It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it." Or, as longhair so succinctly put it, "Be prepared."

Many folks, operating under Condition White, in other words, feeling safe, are bushwhacked at their own front door just as others have described here. Why risk it?

When you have the misfortune to need a gun to defend yourself, you don't usually have much time. First rule of a gunfight: have a gun.

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"All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow."
 
Hal, yes Jeff and Constable did a great job "transforming" me. I'm here arent I? One day I will get over the fear, its been getting a little better since talking with them. I blame more/less the guys dad who left everything so accesible. Then after everything years down the road I was teased alot so that didnt help matters. So right now I am just kinda hanging out checking out your boards, and when I find the right person to take me I'll go and check out the range. I think I am over the fear of seeing the gun, now i need to get over that loud bang that goes along with it.
I dont critize anyone that is bringing it to the door with them, I just didnt understand, I dont know anyone around here that does that. Im sure there are people but none that I know. Guess Ive been hanging with the wrong crowds eh? :)
 
I have been called "paranoid" before (just last week I was, by a friend of a friend), but I must admit that I don't answer the door with gun-in-hand usually. Mainly because I have tried it and found that it is too difficult to juggle the door handle, gun, and person all at once without dropping or at least revealing the gun...especially when I need to sign for a package delivery. So, unless I am wearing the gun, I will leave it a few feet from the door where I can get to it in less than a second.
The day before yesterday, a friend-of-a-friend came over (a loudmouth, pushy person). He knocked very loud and when I went to answer the door, he covered the peephole with his finger. Needless to say, the door opened and he saw a .45 before he saw me, and I don't think he will be trying that prank again. It was not funny. (I would not have answered the door, but I was at a friends house and they were expecting company)


Miss D- One thing that many of us here have in common is that many of us have found ourselves at some point in a very bad situation and helpless. Some of us have been victims of serious crime, or watched others victimized while we watched helplessly. Often times, at that point, the victim makes a conscious decision that "I will never let that happen to me or another innocent again while I am helpless". We have, through these experiences, found that the Police only arrive to take a report and collect the bodies, and that crimes happen so fast that even the criminals know that the Police cannot show up in time to stop it. The Police (God love them) *might* show up in time to make an arrest before the BG gets away, but by that time the crime is commited, and if that crime was your murder or your rape, then the Police showed up too late for you.

Some of my friends refer to me jokingly as a "gun toting maniac" because I always have a weapon with me. Why? Because I have been in situations where my life or others were in jeopardy, and my defensive weapon was not with me. That will never happen again. I saw my friend get beaten into the pavement with a baseball bat by a lunatic on drugs. There was nothing I could do under the circumstances but watch (long story). Yes, the neighbors called the Police even before the beating began, but the Police showed up too late for my freind, and only due to our efforts were the Police able to catch the BG's, who had driven away long before the Police showed up. Let me put this into perspective: The BG's, one with a car as a weapon, and the other with a bat, were able to beat more than FIVE people with the baseball bat as well as swing at others who ran, as well as ram a fence over with their car, trying to run people over, and still get away before the Police could show up. The event felt like it lasted half an hour, but in reality it all happened so fast that the Police didn't even show up before it was over (a matter of minutes from beginning to end). The point is, if a person who has no regard for the law and no fear of the Police decides to commit a violent act, you and you alone are going to have to stop them, because the Police won't get there until he has done his chosen violent deed to you or your child.

Most women who are raped take on the same mentality. Most people that are victimized at all take on the same mentality. The illusion of safety that our society promotes is shattered very quickly when you find yourself in the sights of someone who does not "play by the rules"....someone who has no regard for law or the Police, and is going to harm you and others with no remorse or hesitation. These people exist, and these things happen every day. Our society only has the illusion of safety, and some of us have found that out the hard way.

I have seen myself that the quickest way to convert an anti-gun, anti-self defense person is to put them in a situation where they are the victim, and quicker than spit, they will be converted to a "gun toting maniac" as soon as they have the enlightening revelation that they are not as safe and protected as our society tells them they are.
One of my best friends years ago was a staunch anti-handgun person. He told me to my face that all handguns should be banned and collected by force, mine included. That was until he found himself one day surrounded by 11 guys bent on beating him into the hospital, and he happened to be in my car. He grabbed my gun and fended off the BG's by pointing it at them. He immediatly changed his mind about handguns, and the very next day he was telling me that "they weren't so bad". By a week later, he was shopping for one. All it took was one eye-opening event with the real world, and he quickly changed his political stance on the gun issue.

Not meaning to be preachy, but just sharing my experiences,
thaddeus
 
Miss D,
In the late 1970s my family and I lived south of San Antonio on a rather remote farm. We were in the area where many illegal aliens travel, usually walking, toward San Antonio.

One evening after supper, I was in the bathroom when a large man knocked at the door. My wife answered the door and the man asked to use the phone. My wife said no, but she offered to make a call for him.

He looked into the house and saw only my wife and our two daughters, about 2 & 3 y/o. He then demanded to use the phone and tried to pull open the screen door as my wife engaged in a tug-of-war with him to hold it shut.

About that time I showed up with a shotgun and gave the gentleman a rather ugly set of options. He chose "door number one" so to speak and left the area at astonishing speed for a fat man on foot.

We later learned that our neighbor and his wife, who lived about a half mile away from us, had been held hostage by a group of men for nearly a week a few years earlier.

We no longer live in a dangerous neighborhood. The odds are nobody will come to my door with thoughts of harming me or my family. However, these are only "odds". I choose to improve my odds by being somewhat trained with the Army .45 which I carry to the door.

Usually I keep it pointed in the air, behind the door, and no one is the wiser. Chances are I'll never need it. Chances are I won't need my automobile seat belt either - but I wear the belt, and I carry the gun.

If we all carried guns to the door, criminals would very seldom try to force their way into a home past a homeowner. So everyone is a little bit safer because a few of us just flat refuse to be victims.

By the way, I will fight for your right NOT to have a gun (if you don't want one), every bit as hard as I will fight for my right to have a gun (because I want one). No problem with me either way. It's only a problem when someone tells me I can't have a gun because they don't want one. Or worse yet, they have guns and/or security guards but want to deprive me of my right to defend my family and myself. Grrr! That one will light my fire!

You? Make your own decisions. Change back and forth or stick to one opinion. You decide what's right for you. We, on TFL, may agree or disagree with your opinion, but we'll fight hard and long for your right to decide for yourself.
 
"I am not ready to own a gun yet." (Miss D.)

That's a very responsible attitude. Certainly there are lots of people who aren't ready to own a gun, but they own one anyway. If it makes you uncomfortable, which is understandable in your case, then don't rush into it. The decision to own (or not own) a gun is a very serious one. Continue your education, and take gradual steps. As you know by now, this board is possibly the best place to learn about all kinds of firearms issues. And judging from your posts, you're obviously open minded enough to acknowledge that someday you might own a gun. That's a big step. Follow through with it, and best of luck, whatever you decide.

On answering the door with a gun in hand, I do it. I'm fanatical about my privacy, now that I have some. :) I live in a fairly rural area, which discourages casual visitors, and I put a "No Trespassing" sign at the bottom of our driveway. And I really, really mean it. Now there are only two kinds of people who drop by unannounced: the tragically stupid, and the Bad People.

Also, my front door is mostly glass, and the wife won't let me install steel doors (she's got this "thing" about having sunlight in the living room. Go figure!) In the event that someone at the door is a Bad Guy, they can come through the door, showering me with shards of glass, and have at me before I can take a step. More than a few house breakers use the break-in-the-door method, when they know their intended victim is right behind it. You don't even have to open the door to get into trouble.

So I go to the door with my evil-looking shotgun. I don't have a handgun, which would be more dicreet, so I take the opposite approach and make it unmistakeably clear that I'm prepared for Evil-doers, and don't appreciate trespassers. I try put on a nonchalant air (not easy to do), and always hold the gun in a non-threatening manner. I'm polite, and listen to what they have to say, but always make reference to the "Keep Out" sign. Repeat offenders while be spoken to rudely. So far, so good.

Any weapon, such as a pipe, that requires you to be at arm's length from your assailant in order to defend yourself can be taken away from you and used against you. Especially if there are more than one Bad Guy. It can also give you a false feeling of preparedness, and make you vulnerable. Having it and making a stand can get you into more trouble than just trying to get away. For you, though, having a child to protect makes things a lot more complicated.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to "flame" you on your choice of weapon! :) :)(see, two smiley faces!) You have the chutzpah to take care of yourself, and a wise "don't talk to strangers" policy. I just thought you should know the risks.

Actually, before I bought a gun, I kept a few "whacking sticks" around, just in case. I once chased an intruder out of my apartment with half a stainless steel microphone stand! But I was lucky. He was alone, unarmed, didn't know I was home, and only wanted to rob the place. He didn't want to fight, so he ran. I, like thaddeus, said "Never again!"

As for your friend's father, I wouldn't blame him for leaving the gun accessible. But I would blame him for not teaching his son some common sense and responsibilty.

BTW, It's great to have folks like you and Gunz-and-Rosie on the board. You ask the questions that a lot of us have come to consider obvious, simply because we delve into these issues all day, every day. You help us re-examine our opinions from a fresh perspective. Glad to have you here! :)

-boing
 
Thank you Thaddeus and Dennis for sharing that with me! Wow that was well put! I can see your reasoning. i understand why you would bring it to the door. See this is all odd to me, when I was little we never had a gun in the house, so naturally I never thought twice about it, then when I got married he never had a gun, nor would he be one to be responsible with one. I dont know what protection is, I watch out for myself and seeing that I am still afraid of them thats why I do not own one. Yes i probably would feel much better knowing it was nearby especially when I am home alone, which is often. But then I wouldnt feel so safe if i knew he had access to it. If I was by myself I might consider it, after trying it out and getting over the fear. But I totally respect your opinion to have one. Thats great that you want to protect your family and yourself.I guess when you see something terrible like seeing your friend get beat up that would change your mind quick. In my case it happened the opposite so naturally I thought the opposite. I never really felt unsafe in my house, I feel more scared when I need to run to the store late at night. We cant carry guns here. So that would do me no good. I dont think you can carry them in your car either, I think Scottie Pippen got arrested downtown because he had one in his car, but I'm not sure.
But thanks for sharing those stories, I am sorry that happened to both of you!
 
Here's a little more food for thought, Miss D.

A few years back, while I was a Police Explorer in a large Texas city, we answered a shooting call in the suppossedly "good" part of town. What had happened is, late in the evening, three African American males knocked on the apartment door of a hispanic family. One of the hispanic males in the apartment responded to the knocks by asking "Who is it?" The thugs replied that they were the Police. When the door was opened, the thugs barged in and proceeded to rob the family, and while in the process, shot two males in the apartment.

Neither of the shooting victims were seriously injured, but it took us, the Police, more than 5 minutes to respond.

You must remember that once 911 is called, the criminal act has, more than likely, already been commited. You must also realize that when 911 is called, you're not talking to the officer that will be responding to the call. The person on the other end is the 911 operator who is taking down the complainant's information. If the complainant does not speak English, it takes that much longer to get someone who can translate. After the all information is taken, it is sent to the dispatcher. The call is then dispatched, but only if there are officers available to take the call. I have heard of priority calls being held for 5, 10, even 30 minutes before being dispatched.

Another incident happened in a nice suburban area in which I grew up. A few years back, my truck was shot up. That's right, it was shot up. This being in a neighborhood that has never experienced any problems, other than the occassional noise complaint or maybe a little vandalism.

The local P.D. came out and took the report, and we gathered 6 spent 9mm casings from the street and accounted for 9 shots---three in the tires and six through the passenger side door (my truck was parked on the street).

About a month later, the Police called to let us know that the culprit had be caught in a town about 20 miles away. He was wanted for murder, but he had an unusual habit of driving around shooting things up. A murderer! On my street! That just goes to show you that you never know who might be around your neighborhood.

The incident of someone shooting up my truck did not turn me away from guns. I just found it amusing that my father, a former gun store owner, was awakened by the shots, counted them, and determined what caliber of gun was being shot before we even found that the truck was shot up!

The point is, though, no matter how safe you may feel in your neighborhood, you just never know when something might happen in your town, whether it's a kid gouging out another kid's eyes in a school-yard fight (which recently happened in my hometown), or if it's the latest in a series of murders.
 
Miss D: Pardon me for asking, and you certainly need not answer:
What side of the door is the threat on? Inside or outside?

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Hal, i hate to admit it, but i was wondering that too. Miss D, like Hal said, you need not answer if you don't want. we do respect a persons right to privacy around here..

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what me worry?




[This message has been edited by longhair (edited June 26, 1999).]
 
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