Has any one heared of or pesonally experienced a "AD" from racking a slide to cycle or eject one from the pipe? I know our carry instructor said never rack the slide with hand over ejector port for that reason. I also know that they make and some departments use a device to stick the gun into when ejecting a round from the gun. What are the odds of it happening if you are at home and just want to clean your gun that you carry with one in the barrel. You remove mag and rack to eject round and boom? Is there a safe or recomended way anything special?
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Racking slide and Firing?
- Thread starter StanA
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I've never had it happen, or seen it happen, but it's possible for a live round to strike the ejector with its primer on the way out, resulting in the round firing. Since the round is out of the chamber, it will blow apart the case rather than propelling the bullet down the barrel. This results in a big "ouchie" if you have a hand over the ejection port to catch the round being jacked out of the chamber.
This problem is most common (as far as I know) in 1911 pistols with extended ejectors, and even then it's not really "common".
Generally speaking, the loading and unloading processes are prime opportunities for a negligent or accidental discharge.
This problem is most common (as far as I know) in 1911 pistols with extended ejectors, and even then it's not really "common".
Generally speaking, the loading and unloading processes are prime opportunities for a negligent or accidental discharge.
Mike Spight
New member
Stan:
Hmmm...that's a new one. I've never heard of it or seen it happen. For what it's worth, when ejecting a round into ones hand (clearing the weapon), I was taught to hold my weak hand over the ejection port to catch the round as it's ejected. Been doing it that way for 30+ years with no ND experienced.
I just don't think it can happen.
Mike
Hmmm...that's a new one. I've never heard of it or seen it happen. For what it's worth, when ejecting a round into ones hand (clearing the weapon), I was taught to hold my weak hand over the ejection port to catch the round as it's ejected. Been doing it that way for 30+ years with no ND experienced.
I just don't think it can happen.
Mike
Bryan Whited
New member
Can it happen?
Sure it can happen!
In fact, it happened to me once.
The only thing I could have done differently is to rack the slide slower.
The following events are why I never cover the ejection port with my hand while I am unloading anymore.
The details of what happened:
Presented firearm
Depressed trigger
Hammer went down
Make a Clicking sound (no bang)
Racked slide
When slide was fully rearward the round fired
Cause:
Was shooting a Steel Challenge stage so the malfunction drill was done very quickly. When the round was extracted from the chamber it continuted rearward until the ejector contacted the round. The contact was at the base of the cartridge on the brass. At this time the cartridge walked towards the ejector and the ejector contacted the primer. As a result the primer went off causing the bullet to launch into the the barrel and slide right at the ejection port. The bullet then exited the ejection port and proceeded to travel 3 feet down range.
Before this event happened I always covered the ejection port when I was unloading. Now I never do. I like my hand and would like to keep it!
Sure it can happen!
In fact, it happened to me once.
The only thing I could have done differently is to rack the slide slower.
The following events are why I never cover the ejection port with my hand while I am unloading anymore.
The details of what happened:
Presented firearm
Depressed trigger
Hammer went down
Make a Clicking sound (no bang)
Racked slide
When slide was fully rearward the round fired
Cause:
Was shooting a Steel Challenge stage so the malfunction drill was done very quickly. When the round was extracted from the chamber it continuted rearward until the ejector contacted the round. The contact was at the base of the cartridge on the brass. At this time the cartridge walked towards the ejector and the ejector contacted the primer. As a result the primer went off causing the bullet to launch into the the barrel and slide right at the ejection port. The bullet then exited the ejection port and proceeded to travel 3 feet down range.
Before this event happened I always covered the ejection port when I was unloading. Now I never do. I like my hand and would like to keep it!
Bryan - You have described a hang fire which is not the same problem as simple unloading an unfired round. Normally, you should wait at least 10 seconds before racking the slide to remove a round you triggered but didn't fire. As an alternative, you could have recocked and fired again. Chances are the round would have fired at that time. But during a competition or, more importantly during a real FF, you would clear it just like you did. You just have to treat it a little differently, as if you are ejecting a small bomb. Don't let your hands near the ejection port, shield your face if possible and don't let it fall next to anyone.
This is a great topic.
MalH is right on target. I treat a misfire exactly like a bomb. That's what the blast can at the range is for, hairy jams and misfires.
In responce to the original question; there was a story submitted a few weeks ago on this forum by a guy who had a new gun AD when he chambered the first round, in his house w/o ear protection.
For whatever reason, the firing pin was stuck in the fire position so when the slide came forward, kaboom. This is an area to be inspected before chambering the first round on any SA.
I have never heard of an AD while clearing a weapon w/o some other circumstance playing a part, such as a misfire or jam.
MalH is right on target. I treat a misfire exactly like a bomb. That's what the blast can at the range is for, hairy jams and misfires.
In responce to the original question; there was a story submitted a few weeks ago on this forum by a guy who had a new gun AD when he chambered the first round, in his house w/o ear protection.
For whatever reason, the firing pin was stuck in the fire position so when the slide came forward, kaboom. This is an area to be inspected before chambering the first round on any SA.
I have never heard of an AD while clearing a weapon w/o some other circumstance playing a part, such as a misfire or jam.
I've seen it happen to a Sig 226. It's very infrequent but happens when a partially
loaded mag is put in the mag well and "tapped" in really hard. This causes the
cartridge to go "ass end" up where the front edge of the ridge on the breechblock
can encounter the primer and cause a KB!
Sig doesn't think the problem is to serious.
The fix is to chamfer the sharp edge of the
ridge where it can't make the primer go boom.
The advice on not putting your hand over the ejection port is good advice. It will not
only save your hand but will stop causing those mysterious double feeds caused by your
hand knocking a round back into the chamber.
loaded mag is put in the mag well and "tapped" in really hard. This causes the
cartridge to go "ass end" up where the front edge of the ridge on the breechblock
can encounter the primer and cause a KB!
Sig doesn't think the problem is to serious.
The fix is to chamfer the sharp edge of the
ridge where it can't make the primer go boom.
The advice on not putting your hand over the ejection port is good advice. It will not
only save your hand but will stop causing those mysterious double feeds caused by your
hand knocking a round back into the chamber.
Thanks everyone thats kinda what I was trying to figure out? Since I don't want to go into my back yard every time I want to check cycling or dump a round from carry to clean it. Plus I could get arrested for discharging a firearm in city limits. I might look into one of those contraptions that you unload into? I just don't want to shoot hole through the floor of my home. Not to mention freak my neighbors out!
Last year at Weirton, W(bg)V, during the Area USPSA shoot, a friend of mine racked his slide back with his left hand over the ejection port at the completion of his last stage, and the .45 round that was in the chamber came back and hit his custom extended ejector and detonated the primer. The case let go and he ended up with an ugly hand for awhile.
Mike Spight
New member
All:
The key point here is to rotate the weapon's ejector port toward the ground...then when you rack the slide back the round will FALL into your hand, not merely bounce back into the chamber, thereby inviting a ND. Again, this is for clearing a weapon for safety or to show clear for a RO...it is NOT for the "...tap/rack/bang..." drill following a malfunction.
Mike
The key point here is to rotate the weapon's ejector port toward the ground...then when you rack the slide back the round will FALL into your hand, not merely bounce back into the chamber, thereby inviting a ND. Again, this is for clearing a weapon for safety or to show clear for a RO...it is NOT for the "...tap/rack/bang..." drill following a malfunction.
Mike
Bryan Whited
New member
Mal H
Actually the problem was not a misfire.
After recovering the brass there was a large square stike on one side of the primer in the exact same size as the face of the ejector.
When time is in short supply the standard drill for a failure to fire is "Tap-Rack-Flip" or one of its variants, as you implied.
If time was not a factor then the original misfire could have been cleared in a different mannor.
The most important thing is to clear it safely!
At that time I was using the overhand method and apparently had my hand a little to far forward becuase a bit of damage was done to the outside of the palm area where it was near the ejection port. Also my little finger was trailing a bit so it was sliced by some flying brass chips.
The solution?
Now I use the slingshot method when handling this situation so my hand is behind the slide. If this happened again the hand would be nowhere near the ejection port. As a side benifit I found out that the slingshot method is actually faster.
Actually the problem was not a misfire.
After recovering the brass there was a large square stike on one side of the primer in the exact same size as the face of the ejector.
When time is in short supply the standard drill for a failure to fire is "Tap-Rack-Flip" or one of its variants, as you implied.
If time was not a factor then the original misfire could have been cleared in a different mannor.
The most important thing is to clear it safely!
At that time I was using the overhand method and apparently had my hand a little to far forward becuase a bit of damage was done to the outside of the palm area where it was near the ejection port. Also my little finger was trailing a bit so it was sliced by some flying brass chips.
The solution?
Now I use the slingshot method when handling this situation so my hand is behind the slide. If this happened again the hand would be nowhere near the ejection port. As a side benifit I found out that the slingshot method is actually faster.
Chuck Taylor had photos of this in a Combat Handguns article a few years ago. One could see the ejector mark on the primer, or what was left of the primer.
I have heard of it in competition also.
As to the Sig situation, there is a web site with extensive pictures...regarding this detonation while loading.
http://www.lebmofo.com/~dkaufman/sig.htm
Kilroy...
...was here.
I have heard of it in competition also.
As to the Sig situation, there is a web site with extensive pictures...regarding this detonation while loading.
http://www.lebmofo.com/~dkaufman/sig.htm
Kilroy...
...was here.
Bryan, I'm confused when you say it wasn't a misfire. Unless, I'm reading something wrong in your first post, you "... depressed trigger; hammer went down; make a clicking sound (no bang); racked slide ...". Are you saying the hammer hitting the firing pin did not indent the primer?
Saw this first hand, as well. August IDPA match in Phoenix, Arizona. Sig 2xx in .40 caliber during a speed reload. The operator fed the mag well and while grasping the rear of the slide to cycle it to the rear and then forward, the feed 'stripper' on the bottom of the slide contacted the primer and blew the case out through the ejection port like a hand-grenade.
Shrapnel in the leg and scared all of us pretty good. Failure analysis showed the bullet sitting in the chamber, case shredded like you wouldn't believe. He was done for the day. After that, I use the hand-over technique and swear by it to everyone I meet.
It can happen to you.
Shrapnel in the leg and scared all of us pretty good. Failure analysis showed the bullet sitting in the chamber, case shredded like you wouldn't believe. He was done for the day. After that, I use the hand-over technique and swear by it to everyone I meet.
It can happen to you.
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