R&D or Kirst

S

smokepole14

New member
Ive been wanting to get a conversion cylindar for my pietta made 58 remmy but have some questions. I heard the R&D chambers are at an angle and don't shoot straight, wandering would this ruin the barrel over time. and the kirst shoots out straight but i heard it might take some modification to the gun. which ever one drops in the best without having modification done to the gun is probably the one i want (since i probably will still shoot in bp form). both seem great but was wandering which would be best thanks for all the help.
 
Either are excellent. The slight angle on the R&D will not affect anything. The Kirst was, for me, slower to get back in the gun because it has to be "indexed" with the flat part against the top strap. Also, since firing pins can break (I have never had one break), I'd rather have six than one. Either is an excellent choice, however.
 
Also, since firing pins can break (I have never had one break), I'd rather have six than one. Either is an excellent choice, however.
Click to expand...

Well, with six firing pins, you also have 6x the odds of breaking one. :D

Seriously though, there are good arguements on both sides and ones choice over the other can only be attributed to personal preference.

I personally don't own either, but I have done alot of reading on both the Kirst and the R&D (now operating under the name "Howell").

Just for the record ...
When (or if) they ever become available again, I will be buying the Kirst. ;)
 
I am probably one of the few people who bought one of each at the same time and tried the simultaneously. I liked the R&D better, but if I could only get a Kirst, I would never look back or think twice about it.
 
yeah dino but you still have 5 cylinders that will go off...unless here is a scenario, cock hammer, click! broken firing pin, cock hammer again, click! dud round, cock hammer again, bang! and again, bang! and again, bang! and again, bang!

now i don't know about you, but i sure as hell don't want to be shot 4 times with and 1858 in .45 lc...lol...
 
I pondered the R&D vs Kirst conversion cylinder decision myself about a year ago. However, I was looking for a conversion cylinder for my ROA. I went with the R&D cylinder. My primary reason was because I didn't like the idea of having to align the Kirst backplate during installation. The R&D cylinder is very high quality. I've read enough about the Kirst cylinder to know it is a quality product too. For a 1858 I would definitely go with an R&D as it has 6 cylinders while the Kirst only has 5. I don't think the number of firing pins is an issue either way. From the reviews I've read from owners of the 1858 R&D cylinder the angled cylinders is also a non-issue.

I'm thinking about getting a Kirst cylinder for my Walker. The reason for that is I like Kirst's loading gate solution which means I wouldn't have to worry about backplate alignment every time I installed it.
 
5-round R&D/Howell

There is a 5-Round R&D/Howell cylinder available now for the 1858 and it is being advertised as the "strongest" conversion cylinder on the market. It has an absolutely straight throw to the forcing cone and into the bore.

One of these is made in REAL stainless steel as well for the stainless Uberti's.
 
yeah dino but you still have 5 cylinders that will go off...unless here is a scenario, cock hammer, click! broken firing pin, cock hammer again, click! dud round, cock hammer again, bang! and again, bang! and again, bang! and again, bang!

now i don't know about you, but i sure as hell don't want to be shot 4 times with and 1858 in .45 lc...lol...
Click to expand...

I get what you're say'n but there's just something about that design that makes me cringe.

Consider the following review I found on the Midway site ...

Super quality manufacturing. Had Trouble with it binding up due to the firing pins jamming against the lower part of the caping port on the gun. Had the gun slightly relieved, now it works flawlessly.

This may in fact be an isolated incident, but it still concerns me.
And though I understand your "scenario" is intentionally extreme, I'd say even one misfire (or broken pin) is not a good thing regardless of how many you have left, but that's just my opinion.

btw ... does anyone know exactly why R&D changed their name to "Howell"?
It may prove irrelevent, but I know of at least one case where they made a design change in one of their conversion cylinders when they changed their name. Coincidence maybe. (?)
 
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Just to add my 2 centavos, I chose the R&D (Howell) for my 1858 and have never regretted it. I can't compare it the Kirst but I can tell you the R&D is a quality product, it worked perfectly out of the box on my Uberti without any modifications, and has given me hours of straight-shooting pleasure at the range.
 
I have a couple questions regarding conversions:

Does anyone have any experience with the 5 shot R&D in .45 Colt for the Pietta 1858? Do the thicker walls make it stronger regarding kabooms or is it simply a way to cut down on the cant of the bullet into the forcing cone so that it flies straighter? Does it have a safety notch? Not that I would shoot smokeless out of it, but would it handle slightly stouter cowboy loads?

I'm seriously considering getting a conversion for my new Remington as I love the balance, heft, and feel of the gun. However, I'm not a huge fan of packing around a loaded BP unless I'm going to the range. If I'm going to plunk down over $200 on a conversion, I'd like to at least be able to carry it fully loaded. I don't see much point packing around a 6 shooter that I turned into a 5 shooter and can only safely carry 4 live rounds in:rolleyes:

Thanks for any help guys:o
 
Some scary stuff in this thread ...
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328487

The last entry (posted today) basically says all is good but there are/were alot of unhappy customers who claimed poor customer service, poor communication, and extremely long back-logs on service/repairs (up to 4 years in one case).

It was also stated that there were some tragic business and personal issues.
I can certainly sympathize with this, but as a potential customer, I just can't take a chance of sending them a gun and not seeing it for years and/or not being able to get any sort of response (or straight answer) as to the status of work being done.

Unfortunately, there are only TWO manufactures for these conversion cylinders (that I'm aware of) ... Howell (R&D) or Kirst.
I prefer the Kirst but unfortunately, the cylinder I want is supposedly on "backorder" with "no expected delivery date". In all honesty, the feedback I've received from Kirst and distributors make me question whether they will ever be available again. :(

Is anyone aware of any other sources for these conversion cylinders? :confused:
 
You can carry 5 in the 5 shot cylinders, because it has 10 bolt cut outs so
when you let the hammer down between chambers the bolt is in a cut out
locking the cylinder.
 
That recent post was me...I don't know the people at R&D from Adam (or Eve), had never done any business at all with them. I bought the two R&D cylinders I've got (and the Kirst which I got rid of) from Brownells. I wasn't aware that there'd been any issues...just called and said "I'm having a fit problem, what are the options?" They said they'd fit it for free and shipped it out, fixed perfectly, the day after they got the cylinder and my ROA. I can only tell you what I know.
 
You can carry 5 in the 5 shot cylinders, because it has 10 bolt cut outs so
when you let the hammer down between chambers the bolt is in a cut out
locking the cylinder.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info:)

I was looking at the pics online, and couldn't tell. The chunky well formed safety notches in the 1858 cylinder is one of the main reasons I purchased that particular model:)
 
That recent post was me...I don't know the people at R&D from Adam (or Eve), had never done any business at all with them. I bought the two R&D cylinders I've got (and the Kirst which I got rid of) from Brownells. I wasn't aware that there'd been any issues...just called and said "I'm having a fit problem, what are the options?" They said they'd fit it for free and shipped it out, fixed perfectly, the day after they got the cylinder and my ROA. I can only tell you what I know.
Click to expand...

It wasn't my intent to question the sincerity of your post.
I was just concerned that most of the people who responded to that thread had stated that they received poor service.

I'm glad it worked out for you.
Hopefully, the problems others had were just isolated to the transition period going from "R&D" to "Howell".
I don't know.
 
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