oberkommando
New member
Sorry for opening another possible long thread but was shut out before I could finish editing my previous one:
I Promise no more long history noteS.
I Promise no more long history noteS.
Questions HelgeS, part IV Battle of the Bulge.
- Thread starter oberkommando
- Start date
just remember:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>DON'T MESS WITH TRUE BELIEVERS. In the time you spend trying
to convert one hard core antigun person to our side, you could
have gone out and motivated and organized 20 people who already
think like you do. Go with the flow. It's easier on your nerves,
and much more effective. Personally, I have converted several
anti-rights true believers, but never again! Lots of NRA members
are not registered voters. A lot of gun owners aren't NRA members.
Even more folks have no idea of their elected officials' positions
on gun issues. Where is your time most effectively spent? Think
about this before you spend an hour writing a clever response
to a silly message you found somewhere on the internet.[/quote]
http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/library/RKBA_handbook.html
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>DON'T MESS WITH TRUE BELIEVERS. In the time you spend trying
to convert one hard core antigun person to our side, you could
have gone out and motivated and organized 20 people who already
think like you do. Go with the flow. It's easier on your nerves,
and much more effective. Personally, I have converted several
anti-rights true believers, but never again! Lots of NRA members
are not registered voters. A lot of gun owners aren't NRA members.
Even more folks have no idea of their elected officials' positions
on gun issues. Where is your time most effectively spent? Think
about this before you spend an hour writing a clever response
to a silly message you found somewhere on the internet.[/quote]
http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/library/RKBA_handbook.html
paratrooper
New member
It looked very simple on paper . Enemy attacks with everything at their disposal . Bends an unbendable line . What to do ? Simple . Send in The 101st Airborne . U.S. Paratroopers stop the enemy dead in their tracks . As usual Paratroopers did not meet standards . They SET them .
Merry Christmas Adolf . Death From Above .
------------------
TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
Merry Christmas Adolf . Death From Above .
------------------
TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA
Badger Arms
New member
Okay. The purpose of the constitution is to protect the people from a tyranical government. The people have the right to self-protection. Protection not only from criminals but from the government. When the Government insists on overriding the will of the people and purposely guarding those who kill women and children (Horiuchi), that government is a threat to the individual. I have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms to protect myself and my family from all threats, including the government and those who userp my rights to self determination. I'll own an F'ing Browning M-2 and you will NOT interfere with my right.
Sir, you have as much RIGHT to say what you will as I have the RIGHT to own what I will. You keep your dimwilled nose out of my business and I'll keep my Guns out of yours. It's people like you who are the downfall of every society. Those who are willing to sacrafice freedoms and rights for their view of the common good are the antithesis of freedom. Sir, it is because of MY right to keep and bear arms that you have YOURS to disagree. I submit you are in the wrong.
You would have us give up that very right that allows you to speak without a 'trained' tongue. What right would you have if you were to be taught before you can write a letter to your President; were you to speak in a public place without a certificat of training from the FBI, would you be subject to arrest? Give me a break.
[This message has been edited by badgerarms (edited July 29, 2000).]
Sir, you have as much RIGHT to say what you will as I have the RIGHT to own what I will. You keep your dimwilled nose out of my business and I'll keep my Guns out of yours. It's people like you who are the downfall of every society. Those who are willing to sacrafice freedoms and rights for their view of the common good are the antithesis of freedom. Sir, it is because of MY right to keep and bear arms that you have YOURS to disagree. I submit you are in the wrong.
You would have us give up that very right that allows you to speak without a 'trained' tongue. What right would you have if you were to be taught before you can write a letter to your President; were you to speak in a public place without a certificat of training from the FBI, would you be subject to arrest? Give me a break.
[This message has been edited by badgerarms (edited July 29, 2000).]
MP Freeman
New member
Just testing to see if my new password works.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
MP Freeman
New member
I've been reluctant to enter in this looong debate, but here it goes.....
OK, I believe the original question posted was concerning manditory training for gun owners, and this is what I would like to address.
Jesus says in the Bible that before a thief can rob a house, he must first tie up the strong man who lives in the house.
Applying this to training for gun owners, I will say that before an individual, government agency, UN agency, or any other thief can rob me of life, liberty or property, the thief must first make me unable to resist.
Years back a group of settlers and colonist in America refused to be tied up via taxes by some king and revolted. And now we live in the USA, a free country with many tyrants ready to kill this freedom. Now I know that many left-thinking people like HelgeS are quick to point out that these settlers warred with the Indians over land and nearly drove them nearly out of existance. OK. But what if these Indians would have been better armed than the settlers? Would I be living in the heartland of USA or in Injun territory?
More recent and close to the fatherland, Hitler first disarmed the Jewish people and then robbed them of life, liberty and property. Unfortunately these people who were robbed did not stock up on sub-machine guns or bazookas. But the allies did air drop cheap pistols called "the liberator" over occupied Europe, mostly into untrained hands. (Sidenote: Could you imagine the President air dropping cheap pistols (Saturday night specials) over Yugoslavia.) If I were in occupied Europe, I'd rather be air dropped a GE mini-gun or 4 bazookas. And I'm not trained in either.
I'm also reminded of a story I heard from this elderly black man in my church. In 1957 he was living in South Carolina and the KKK came a-knockin' and a-cross-burnin'. But the man steps out on the front porch with a weapon and dishes out headache number 357. But he only hit one man and missed with 11 other shots. I guess he should have had better training.
Now manditory training, licensing or anything else that violates a persons freedom of self-preservation is just the first knot tied around your wrist before the robbery occurs.
Of course in this day and age Americans have no reason to fear rapists, murderers, or government agencies that burn children alive.
Proper training is a good idea, as long as its a personal choice.
OK, I believe the original question posted was concerning manditory training for gun owners, and this is what I would like to address.
Jesus says in the Bible that before a thief can rob a house, he must first tie up the strong man who lives in the house.
Applying this to training for gun owners, I will say that before an individual, government agency, UN agency, or any other thief can rob me of life, liberty or property, the thief must first make me unable to resist.
Years back a group of settlers and colonist in America refused to be tied up via taxes by some king and revolted. And now we live in the USA, a free country with many tyrants ready to kill this freedom. Now I know that many left-thinking people like HelgeS are quick to point out that these settlers warred with the Indians over land and nearly drove them nearly out of existance. OK. But what if these Indians would have been better armed than the settlers? Would I be living in the heartland of USA or in Injun territory?
More recent and close to the fatherland, Hitler first disarmed the Jewish people and then robbed them of life, liberty and property. Unfortunately these people who were robbed did not stock up on sub-machine guns or bazookas. But the allies did air drop cheap pistols called "the liberator" over occupied Europe, mostly into untrained hands. (Sidenote: Could you imagine the President air dropping cheap pistols (Saturday night specials) over Yugoslavia.) If I were in occupied Europe, I'd rather be air dropped a GE mini-gun or 4 bazookas. And I'm not trained in either.
I'm also reminded of a story I heard from this elderly black man in my church. In 1957 he was living in South Carolina and the KKK came a-knockin' and a-cross-burnin'. But the man steps out on the front porch with a weapon and dishes out headache number 357. But he only hit one man and missed with 11 other shots. I guess he should have had better training.
Now manditory training, licensing or anything else that violates a persons freedom of self-preservation is just the first knot tied around your wrist before the robbery occurs.
Of course in this day and age Americans have no reason to fear rapists, murderers, or government agencies that burn children alive.
Proper training is a good idea, as long as its a personal choice.
Let's all remember how uncivil the last thread was. Honestly, if you can't post without flaming, go post on a technical issue. You are not helping if all you can do is insult and flame.
HelgeS, again I want to say this with as much respect as possible, but your last few posts were studies in contradiction. You say that you are well aware of the usefulness of rifles and shotguns, then in the same paragraph you state that you still wish to limit me to pistols since "that's all that's needed." I don't understand how anyone can claim to believe both at the same time. Please answer me this:
If all you need is a pistol to face criminals intent on killing you, then why do police use rifles and shotguns whenever possible? Why did Clint Smith, one of the foremost experts on use of the combat pistol, say "A handgun is a tool for fighting your way to your rifle" or the equivalent?
Then you acknowledge that anyone who doesn't pay their tax bills in full and to the satisfaction of the government will be thrown in prison with the rest of the criminals, but you still insist that those payments are merely gifts given voluntarily! By your definition, anyone who caves in and gives his money to a robber, no matter what threat caused him to do so, has only given his attacker a "gift" of his own free will. Apparently a large class of robbery has winked out of existence in your world, but I tell you that the man who forces me to give up my earnings by threats of force, abuse, or torture is committing robbery. It's not complicated. The legal word is "duress"--a level of stress that cancels free will. If someone places you in a state of duress--for instance, by threatening to throw you in jail unless you give him what he wants--then you cannot have agreed to anything of your own free will.
I am equally disturbed by the answer you gave to another grave question. Asked what gave you the right to decide what is "needed" in our lives and what is not when our very lives are at stake, you replied that it was your "expertise!" Of what expertise were you speaking? Are you an expert in self-defense? Are you an expert in the theory of human rights? Are you an expert, perhaps, in the various threats faced by 6000 members of The Firingline as they go about their lives in 6000 very different locations? That would mean you're an expert on surviving Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern urban environments, suburbs, forests, deserts, beaches, slums, small towns, wealthy subdivisions, back alleys, mountains, dark highways and backwoods to name several. Can you really claim that?
Just what sort of expert were you claiming to be? You appear to have no training in self-defense at all; only military shooting and tactics.
Besides, expertise can justify any abuse. The grave and respected scientists who "proved" women and negroes intellectually inferior by weighing the brains of cadavers were experts. The people who kept slavery alive were experts on the subject; and the people who instituted the income tax "for a few years and at a modest rate of 1%" were experts as well. Experts are important for advice, not commands. You will never gain a level of expertise that justifies oppressing me or anyone else "for our own good," because it doesn't exist.
HelgeS, again I want to say this with as much respect as possible, but your last few posts were studies in contradiction. You say that you are well aware of the usefulness of rifles and shotguns, then in the same paragraph you state that you still wish to limit me to pistols since "that's all that's needed." I don't understand how anyone can claim to believe both at the same time. Please answer me this:
If all you need is a pistol to face criminals intent on killing you, then why do police use rifles and shotguns whenever possible? Why did Clint Smith, one of the foremost experts on use of the combat pistol, say "A handgun is a tool for fighting your way to your rifle" or the equivalent?
Then you acknowledge that anyone who doesn't pay their tax bills in full and to the satisfaction of the government will be thrown in prison with the rest of the criminals, but you still insist that those payments are merely gifts given voluntarily! By your definition, anyone who caves in and gives his money to a robber, no matter what threat caused him to do so, has only given his attacker a "gift" of his own free will. Apparently a large class of robbery has winked out of existence in your world, but I tell you that the man who forces me to give up my earnings by threats of force, abuse, or torture is committing robbery. It's not complicated. The legal word is "duress"--a level of stress that cancels free will. If someone places you in a state of duress--for instance, by threatening to throw you in jail unless you give him what he wants--then you cannot have agreed to anything of your own free will.
I am equally disturbed by the answer you gave to another grave question. Asked what gave you the right to decide what is "needed" in our lives and what is not when our very lives are at stake, you replied that it was your "expertise!" Of what expertise were you speaking? Are you an expert in self-defense? Are you an expert in the theory of human rights? Are you an expert, perhaps, in the various threats faced by 6000 members of The Firingline as they go about their lives in 6000 very different locations? That would mean you're an expert on surviving Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern urban environments, suburbs, forests, deserts, beaches, slums, small towns, wealthy subdivisions, back alleys, mountains, dark highways and backwoods to name several. Can you really claim that?
Just what sort of expert were you claiming to be? You appear to have no training in self-defense at all; only military shooting and tactics.
Besides, expertise can justify any abuse. The grave and respected scientists who "proved" women and negroes intellectually inferior by weighing the brains of cadavers were experts. The people who kept slavery alive were experts on the subject; and the people who instituted the income tax "for a few years and at a modest rate of 1%" were experts as well. Experts are important for advice, not commands. You will never gain a level of expertise that justifies oppressing me or anyone else "for our own good," because it doesn't exist.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
A primary difference between the U.S. and most other countries is that the U.S. is philosophically based upon the concept of the Free Individual. Other countries generally believe that all "Rights" come from the State.
The folks who set up our system as codified in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights took it for granted that personal responsibility was a given. A Free Individual was assumed to fully understand the concept of responsibility for his behavior, knowledge, decisions...
While this viewpoint about one's being a Free Individual with responsibilities seems to be declining and falling into disrepute, it is still the basis for our society.
We do have Statists who would have us kowtow to government in the German style. We do have a body of laws concerning firearms which are, in a sense, mass punishment: Somebody else did someting bad, so you will have to do without some of your Rights because of it.
But I will live as a Free Individual until I die. I prefer to live a quiet life, bothering nobody. I do suggest that anyone who ever thinks I will kowtow to any political entity rather than die should darned well bring his lunch, 'cause it'll be a long day.
And given the various philosophies which have come from Germany during the last 150 years, given the amount of unwarranted death and destruction brought about by their governments, I'm uninterested in any German's opinions about life and the living thereof. They're reasonably clever about building overly-complex, over-priced automobiles, but that's about the limit...
, Art
The folks who set up our system as codified in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights took it for granted that personal responsibility was a given. A Free Individual was assumed to fully understand the concept of responsibility for his behavior, knowledge, decisions...
While this viewpoint about one's being a Free Individual with responsibilities seems to be declining and falling into disrepute, it is still the basis for our society.
We do have Statists who would have us kowtow to government in the German style. We do have a body of laws concerning firearms which are, in a sense, mass punishment: Somebody else did someting bad, so you will have to do without some of your Rights because of it.
But I will live as a Free Individual until I die. I prefer to live a quiet life, bothering nobody. I do suggest that anyone who ever thinks I will kowtow to any political entity rather than die should darned well bring his lunch, 'cause it'll be a long day.
And given the various philosophies which have come from Germany during the last 150 years, given the amount of unwarranted death and destruction brought about by their governments, I'm uninterested in any German's opinions about life and the living thereof. They're reasonably clever about building overly-complex, over-priced automobiles, but that's about the limit...
, ArtI was trained by my Father years before being taught the same principles by the US government(military).
Since I've never exhibited any threat to another (non-military) individual who has the right to presume I'm dangerous to others by virtue I haven't "qualified" again to own and fire a gun?
And once this is satisfied, what next year, in a more hostile climate against certain freedoms? What new "qualifications" will I be forced to undure to re-affirm the already known quality? This is a never ending paper trail to permanent disqualification.
A subtle point on the matter, in the form of a joke.
Q: What do you call a person who fininshed last in their class at medical school?
A: Doctor.
It doesn't matter what qualifications you place on someone, the will always be another one that will certainly disqualify you. It's the way the system works.
I'll refer to my signature line. The one from Hitler, that is.
------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
-----------------
"Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial, and destroy their rugged- ness.
Get control of all means of publicity, and thereby get the peoples' mind off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays, and other trivialities.
Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance."
Vladimir Ilich Lenin, former leader of USSR
-----------------
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.
John F. Kennedy
[This message has been edited by Donny (edited July 29, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Donny (edited July 29, 2000).]
Since I've never exhibited any threat to another (non-military) individual who has the right to presume I'm dangerous to others by virtue I haven't "qualified" again to own and fire a gun?
And once this is satisfied, what next year, in a more hostile climate against certain freedoms? What new "qualifications" will I be forced to undure to re-affirm the already known quality? This is a never ending paper trail to permanent disqualification.
A subtle point on the matter, in the form of a joke.
Q: What do you call a person who fininshed last in their class at medical school?
A: Doctor.
It doesn't matter what qualifications you place on someone, the will always be another one that will certainly disqualify you. It's the way the system works.
I'll refer to my signature line. The one from Hitler, that is.
------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
-----------------
"Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested in sex. Make them superficial, and destroy their rugged- ness.
Get control of all means of publicity, and thereby get the peoples' mind off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays, and other trivialities.
Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance."
Vladimir Ilich Lenin, former leader of USSR
-----------------
Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom.
John F. Kennedy
[This message has been edited by Donny (edited July 29, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Donny (edited July 29, 2000).]
Badger Arms
New member
Don, who did the flaming? Please quote or direct your comments at a specific poster.
HelgeS-- You labor under the mistaken notion that all people want an easy life, with a "free" college education, guaranteed health insurance and a guaranteed pension.
I do not want guarantees, especially from my government. I thrive on uncertainty and risk. The higher the pressure, the sharper and more refined my thinking becomes.
For example:
I obtained a Bachelor and Master degrees from Syracuse University (go Orangemen!). This equates to approximately $100,000 in cost, not to mention lost income from going to school instead of working in a trade. Now, I was able to obtain this $100,000 worth of education while never making more than $7,000 per year during undergraduate studies and a whopping $9,000 during grad school. My net worth never exceeded $10,000 at any time during the first 27 years of my life. By your definition, I was one of the low class Americans, working 60-80 hours a week, to live in a dingy apartment, driving a rusty 25-yr old car. While in graduate school, I suffered a serious eye injury and was without health insurance. I was unable to work, and thus was financially wiped out, with $27.50 in the bank and $7,000 in medical bills.
By your thinking, I would have avoided all of this discomfort if only I had lived in the German worker's paradise. And that is where you are wrong.
I embraced all of this discomfort. It did not destroy me, it made me stronger. I learned how to prioritize my spending. I came to realize that I had to pay my health insurance premiums first, then use my remaining income to find shelter and buy food. I lived in a crime-ridden neighborhood and ate spaghetti virtually every day for 5 years, but I had health insurance. Whenever I felt sorry for myself, I read books on military history to learn the depths of human strength and resolve in the face of adversity. Guy Sajer's book "The Forgotten Soldier" was a favorite. As bad and stressful as my life got, I realized that places like Khe Sahn, Omaha Beach and Chosin Reservoir were worse. I gained confidence in my ability to master any situation.
From the stories of veterans, I learned to stay calm, keep fighting and never give up. I learned more about life and about myself, by trying to pay for college, than I ever learned inside of the college classroom.
I took tremendous risks by signing thousands of dollars worth of promissory notes to pay for college, but I saw education as an investment, and with huge risk comes huge reward. You can bet that my attention to my studies was directly proportional to the amount of money I had shelled out to attend that class. Because I was paying for school, I damn sure attended class and paid attention. We Americans love the saying "Put your money where your mouth is" because it tends to cut out the BS. If any person wants to go to college in this country, they can. All they have to do is put their money where their mouth is I had $0 in assests and got all the loans I needed to attend a private university. Those who say they can't afford a college education are simply unwilling to sacrifice everything and take great risks to get it. Personally, I think these non-hackers are not the type of people that I want to have access to a college education paid for by other hard-working Americans. For them, socialized college education merely enables the mediocre to waste more of the taxpayer's money above and beyond high school.
You can keep your government-sponsored education, insurance and gun control. I want to live in a country that pushes me beyond what I ever thought I could do. I want the uncertainty, because that forces me to be thrifty, hard-working and dedicated. Without risk and without threat, I will become docile and dependent on goverment. I will become European.
Let's cut to the chase. The pace of life is accelerating every day. You have to be smarter, stronger and faster than your parents ever were if you want to survive and prosper. You don't gain the competitve edge by relying on someone else to run the race for you. You have to be pushed into the race and learn to run on your own. America's lead over the rest of the world is widening every day, and that is just bugging the hell out of some people. We keep getting stronger, faster and smarter. We are doing this because there are millions of people like me out there in the USA. People who are relentless, fiercely independent and intolerant of BS. Enjoy your socialism while it lasts. Within 25 years, even Germany will succumb to the ills that plague the rest of Europe.
------------------
TRAVELLER, SHOULD YOUR ROAD LEAD YOU TO SPARTA, TELL THEM THAT YOU SAW US LYING HERE AS THE LAWS WILLED IT.
-Inscription on a Greek monument to Leonidas and his soldiers
I do not want guarantees, especially from my government. I thrive on uncertainty and risk. The higher the pressure, the sharper and more refined my thinking becomes.
For example:
I obtained a Bachelor and Master degrees from Syracuse University (go Orangemen!). This equates to approximately $100,000 in cost, not to mention lost income from going to school instead of working in a trade. Now, I was able to obtain this $100,000 worth of education while never making more than $7,000 per year during undergraduate studies and a whopping $9,000 during grad school. My net worth never exceeded $10,000 at any time during the first 27 years of my life. By your definition, I was one of the low class Americans, working 60-80 hours a week, to live in a dingy apartment, driving a rusty 25-yr old car. While in graduate school, I suffered a serious eye injury and was without health insurance. I was unable to work, and thus was financially wiped out, with $27.50 in the bank and $7,000 in medical bills.
By your thinking, I would have avoided all of this discomfort if only I had lived in the German worker's paradise. And that is where you are wrong.
I embraced all of this discomfort. It did not destroy me, it made me stronger. I learned how to prioritize my spending. I came to realize that I had to pay my health insurance premiums first, then use my remaining income to find shelter and buy food. I lived in a crime-ridden neighborhood and ate spaghetti virtually every day for 5 years, but I had health insurance. Whenever I felt sorry for myself, I read books on military history to learn the depths of human strength and resolve in the face of adversity. Guy Sajer's book "The Forgotten Soldier" was a favorite. As bad and stressful as my life got, I realized that places like Khe Sahn, Omaha Beach and Chosin Reservoir were worse. I gained confidence in my ability to master any situation.
From the stories of veterans, I learned to stay calm, keep fighting and never give up. I learned more about life and about myself, by trying to pay for college, than I ever learned inside of the college classroom.
I took tremendous risks by signing thousands of dollars worth of promissory notes to pay for college, but I saw education as an investment, and with huge risk comes huge reward. You can bet that my attention to my studies was directly proportional to the amount of money I had shelled out to attend that class. Because I was paying for school, I damn sure attended class and paid attention. We Americans love the saying "Put your money where your mouth is" because it tends to cut out the BS. If any person wants to go to college in this country, they can. All they have to do is put their money where their mouth is I had $0 in assests and got all the loans I needed to attend a private university. Those who say they can't afford a college education are simply unwilling to sacrifice everything and take great risks to get it. Personally, I think these non-hackers are not the type of people that I want to have access to a college education paid for by other hard-working Americans. For them, socialized college education merely enables the mediocre to waste more of the taxpayer's money above and beyond high school.
You can keep your government-sponsored education, insurance and gun control. I want to live in a country that pushes me beyond what I ever thought I could do. I want the uncertainty, because that forces me to be thrifty, hard-working and dedicated. Without risk and without threat, I will become docile and dependent on goverment. I will become European.
Let's cut to the chase. The pace of life is accelerating every day. You have to be smarter, stronger and faster than your parents ever were if you want to survive and prosper. You don't gain the competitve edge by relying on someone else to run the race for you. You have to be pushed into the race and learn to run on your own. America's lead over the rest of the world is widening every day, and that is just bugging the hell out of some people. We keep getting stronger, faster and smarter. We are doing this because there are millions of people like me out there in the USA. People who are relentless, fiercely independent and intolerant of BS. Enjoy your socialism while it lasts. Within 25 years, even Germany will succumb to the ills that plague the rest of Europe.
------------------
TRAVELLER, SHOULD YOUR ROAD LEAD YOU TO SPARTA, TELL THEM THAT YOU SAW US LYING HERE AS THE LAWS WILLED IT.
-Inscription on a Greek monument to Leonidas and his soldiers
See Keystone's story up above? That's whats called "The American Dream". It's a story told over and over again, with a few personal twists. My own isn't much different, I was just about beaten $$ wise, and went to different path to higher education., but essentially the story is the same. I wanted better, I made it better myself, and paid my way. What little I did borrow, I repaid before even thinking of getting something for myself. There's 275 Million of us, and by G*d, we aren't all on welfare or out in the streets. We make our own way for the most part, sometimes with a helping hand, but the vast majority of us pay our debts, something that few other Countries seem to want to do. Opps, I forgot, Germany did pay the debts from WWII, but only after the old pretzel got a squeeze. Course I view that as a "you broke my window, you pay for the damage". Most of the others just *borrowed* our family car and left it in a ditch.
American health care is the pits and socialized medicine is so much better. How come when some foreign mucky muck wants premier care they come here?
America is the great satan of immoral behavoir. So how come so many come here to escape religious persecution?
America is filled with arrogant people. So why are we the standard by which the rest of the world is judged?
America is filled with crime. So how come when protection is needed, we always seem to be begged to help?
America is a low achiever in academics. So how come so many come here to study?
Amercia is filled with violence. So how come so many come here to play with the toys of violence?-Next trip here HelgeS, visit some of the firing ranges in Vegas. Take note of the Japanese, all agrin, shooting dem bad ole guns.
Yeah, it's such a bad place, and we are such bad people we need fences to seperate us from everyone else. One huge difference betwee our fences and their fences though. Ours keep people out. So how come everyone else's keep people in? Back when Clinton was having problems being *House Broken*, I heard lots of BS about the US being a laughing stock because things like what he did are accepted in other parts of the world. Now tell me, why should this matter? I have zero desire to be like the rest of the world. I grew up in a world where the rest of the world strived to be like US<--(Note the use of caps.)
IMNSHO, since the rest of the world can't have what we do, they don't want us to have it either. Yeah, I agree, this fat old guy wouldn't stand a chance against an army of blue helmuts, but I would sure distract enough of them to let someone else get some licks in. Yeah, we have problems with crime, but not in my neighborhood. I live in what is considered the safest town in Ohio. Im armed to keep it that way. Jeeze Louise, my great grandparents came here from Germany. not the other way around. They got out 'cuse it sucked. No sugar coating on that. Life was hard, and the government oppressive.
OBTW, Helge, I can get in my car, fill it with gas, and travel from sea to sea, and never have to explain why I am where I am. Can any other citizen of any other country say that?
Dogone it! I'm a bit pi$$ter than $hit about having to justify to the rest of the world why America is the way it is, and why we are the way we are. *In my not so humble opinion*, we should be the ones doing the asking, not the telling.
[This message has been edited by RAE (edited July 30, 2000).]
American health care is the pits and socialized medicine is so much better. How come when some foreign mucky muck wants premier care they come here?
America is the great satan of immoral behavoir. So how come so many come here to escape religious persecution?
America is filled with arrogant people. So why are we the standard by which the rest of the world is judged?
America is filled with crime. So how come when protection is needed, we always seem to be begged to help?
America is a low achiever in academics. So how come so many come here to study?
Amercia is filled with violence. So how come so many come here to play with the toys of violence?-Next trip here HelgeS, visit some of the firing ranges in Vegas. Take note of the Japanese, all agrin, shooting dem bad ole guns.
Yeah, it's such a bad place, and we are such bad people we need fences to seperate us from everyone else. One huge difference betwee our fences and their fences though. Ours keep people out. So how come everyone else's keep people in? Back when Clinton was having problems being *House Broken*, I heard lots of BS about the US being a laughing stock because things like what he did are accepted in other parts of the world. Now tell me, why should this matter? I have zero desire to be like the rest of the world. I grew up in a world where the rest of the world strived to be like US<--(Note the use of caps.)
IMNSHO, since the rest of the world can't have what we do, they don't want us to have it either. Yeah, I agree, this fat old guy wouldn't stand a chance against an army of blue helmuts, but I would sure distract enough of them to let someone else get some licks in. Yeah, we have problems with crime, but not in my neighborhood. I live in what is considered the safest town in Ohio. Im armed to keep it that way. Jeeze Louise, my great grandparents came here from Germany. not the other way around. They got out 'cuse it sucked. No sugar coating on that. Life was hard, and the government oppressive.
OBTW, Helge, I can get in my car, fill it with gas, and travel from sea to sea, and never have to explain why I am where I am. Can any other citizen of any other country say that?
Dogone it! I'm a bit pi$$ter than $hit about having to justify to the rest of the world why America is the way it is, and why we are the way we are. *In my not so humble opinion*, we should be the ones doing the asking, not the telling.
[This message has been edited by RAE (edited July 30, 2000).]
Helge:
Do you think a gun by itself has any possible means of hurting anyone and being responsible for its actions. Of course not it is the person on the end of the gun that is responsible for its actions. We have laws in our society that prohibit using a firearm in a wrongful manner. In fact we have many too useless laws that are hardly ever enforced. The anti gun people want to embrace more laws until the pro gun people are neutered and helpless to prevail against them. My question to you... is a gas chamber responsible for its actions of liquidating millions of innocent people because of their religion, any different than a gun. And when a neutered society runs up against the gas chamber brutish thugs...will they now say we need guns to repel the gas chamber thugs...or just meekly walk in and let them turn the gas on. Guns will be useful as long as there are those who are willing to use them responsibly. And they will be needed as long as there are those who would enslave us and deprive us of our liberty. The world is going through some radical changes, there are tyrannical despots around the globe who would be king, they want the utimate control, they want to have power over you. They want to tell you what you can and cannot do while we are under their subjugation. Don't buy any of that? Then you haven't followed history very much.
James
Do you think a gun by itself has any possible means of hurting anyone and being responsible for its actions. Of course not it is the person on the end of the gun that is responsible for its actions. We have laws in our society that prohibit using a firearm in a wrongful manner. In fact we have many too useless laws that are hardly ever enforced. The anti gun people want to embrace more laws until the pro gun people are neutered and helpless to prevail against them. My question to you... is a gas chamber responsible for its actions of liquidating millions of innocent people because of their religion, any different than a gun. And when a neutered society runs up against the gas chamber brutish thugs...will they now say we need guns to repel the gas chamber thugs...or just meekly walk in and let them turn the gas on. Guns will be useful as long as there are those who are willing to use them responsibly. And they will be needed as long as there are those who would enslave us and deprive us of our liberty. The world is going through some radical changes, there are tyrannical despots around the globe who would be king, they want the utimate control, they want to have power over you. They want to tell you what you can and cannot do while we are under their subjugation. Don't buy any of that? Then you haven't followed history very much.
James
Keystone, RAE and James.............good on youse.
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Sam I am, grn egs n packin
Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
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Sam I am, grn egs n packin
Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."