Questions: Collecting low serial numbers....

Skans

New member
Since I get interested in low serial numbers, I thought I'd pose some questions to other collectors out there that find (some) low serial number guns interesting. I know that a lot of people simply don't care about serial numbers - just not their thing. But, what I'm looking for is some personal insight from folks that like to hunt for low serial number pistols made by Colt, S&W, or other manufacturers.

1. What do you consider a "low" serial number?
2. Do serial numbers only matter to you on 1st generations of a particular gun?
3. How do you decide what kind of premium to pay for a serial number - go by gut? Research? Some other method?
 
I collect ( and shoot ) S&W revolvers..../ but I focus on the numbered model revolvers ( after 1957 or so )...and I have about 25 or 30 in a variety of models, barrel lengths and finishes...

When I search for a revolver ...or when I find one ...I really focus on the dash number within the models I want ( like a model 27-2 )...and while I favor, within that dash number the older models ..in the 60's or early 70's ....I don't really shop the serial number itself.

I pay a premium for condition ...and only condition / and it has to be a gun within the dash numbers I want - or I pass on it. So in a sense I'm shopping for serial numbers....sort of...but it's not a conscious part of what I'm looking for.

To get the gun I want ...in a condition I want ...I'll pay what it takes within reason. But the search ...and the hunt ..is sometimes more fun than actually having the gun.

I wouldn't pay a premium for boxes and papers - don't want them....don't care about them. But I have paid a 50% premium for a gun that was clearly unfired out of a collection ( and I promptly took it home, cleaned it and inspected it - and took it to the range and shot it ). I don't really use any price guides ...or online value tools / I watch what guns are selling for in my local used gun shops - gunshows....and base my decision on what I see locally.

So maybe I'm not looking at it the same way you are....
 
BigJimP - I value your explanation of your approach. I'm not really looking to validate my own way of looking at "collectible" pistols. If anything I'm looking to challenge and broaden my own way of assessing collectible guns by getting some insight into what others use as their criteria in their quests.

Condition will dictate what I am willing to pay for a gun. And, like you, I won't pay a premium for box and papers - they take up valuable space and I have to figure out a way to store these things without damaging them - sort of takes the fun out of buying a gun (for me anyway).

However, I am attracted to low serial numbers - don't really know why, maybe it's because I used to collect coins as a kid....and sometimes still do. It's not like I have a hoard of low serial number guns. I have a couple, but I also sold one low serial number gun, and that's the one gun I sometimes wonder about. No matter how much you get for it, some guns are simply impossible to replace.

Just wondering if there are others out there who think along these lines.
 
Other collectors will probably chime in - when they find the thread.

I look forward to their responses.
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I had a conversation with an acquaintance at my local range Monday night about collecting guns in general / what to collect, which models, why, etc...and I didn't really know what to tell him, except to buy what he likes -- and fill it out over time - as his budget allows.

He knows I have a lot of revolvers...and a lot of 1911's ....and he finally has seen me around enough to come out and ask. It was an interesting conversation....

I suspect your approach will be interesting as well...and I'll probably learn something / like I do on this forum most days,,,
 
Skans,

Nice to encounter someone else who is excited by low serial numbers. Regarding your questions, let me answer as best I can from the standpoint of my own collecting philosophy:

1) What do you consider a low serial number? Generally I consider a low serial number (low enough to warrant serious collecting excitement and a significant price premium) to be a number in the lowest 1/10th of 1% of the total production for that model. A couple quick examples from manufacturers/models that I am familiar with: For the Colt 1908 vest pocket .25ACP, this would mean a serial number roughly under 400. For the FN 1905 vest pocket .25ACP, this would mean a serial roughly under 1000. For the Mauser 1910 .25ACP pocket model, this would mean a serial roughly under 350.

Of course, my "1/10th of 1%" rule of thumb is very flexible depending on a variety of factors. For example, even though the total production numbers of the Colt 1908 .25ACP and the Mauser 1910 are not all that different (about 410,000 vs. about 350,000 allowing for the known gaps in the Mauser serials), the scarcity of low serial numbered guns for these two models - at least in the USA - is much more different that might be inferred from the production numbers alone. I have noted a fair number of the Colts with serial numbers less than 400, while any Mauser 1910s with 3-digit or lower serial numbers (let alone lower than the 350 threshold calculated using my little rule) are very rare.

Also, there is of course a large difference in scarcity and desirability when you get down into the really low ranges - assuming a given model's serial range began at 1 and ascended sequentially, it can be assumed that there were only ever 9 single-digit guns, then 90 2-digit guns, then 900 3-digit guns. And in most cases not all will have survived.

2) Do serial numbers only matter to you on 1st generations of a particular gun? Not really sure what you mean by "generation" - most of the guns I am interested in were a particular model that perhaps underwent several variations, but I consider a major model update to be a different gun with its own serial range, even if it took over where the previous model left off. For example, the Mauser WTP .25ACP model had a major update after the first 52,000 or so were made, with the 2nd model serials jumping a small gap and beginning at about 55,000 from the closest estimates based on surviving examples. I would therefore consider a WTP 2nd model with a serial number in the 55,000 range to be quite early.

3) How do you decide what kind of premium to pay for a serial number - go by gut? Research? Some other method? Combination of condition, exactly how low the serial number is, what model of gun it is and how rare. And yes, "gut" plays a big part.
 
I'm not an expert, but in my observations it seems many serious collectors will definitely value a low number at a higher rate. Guns with two digit numbers are particularly prized.
 
j-framer, when I speak of 1st generation guns, I'm generally talking about the original configuration of a particular gun manufactured. For example, I might refer to the WWI era 1911's as 1st generation; or with Colt Pythons, it would be '50's and (maybe 1960) guns with the hollow underlug and original full-checkered grips. I know that with Colt SAA's 1st generation covers a long time span - I suppose I'd distinguish between the earlier black powder vs. the smokeless powder versions.

Right now, I seem to be drawn to early 1911's - actually this comes and goes with me, since I have never been able to acquire what I'm looking for, although I did come close once. I would love to find a nice example of one manufactured in 1913; I have resided that 1912 will simply be out of my reach. In this case, the serial number is important to me because it indicates date of manufacture. Holding and examining one of the first of a great series of firearms fascinates me.
 
I have an interest in low serial numbers mainly because I like to see the changes manufacturers have made over time, like the replacement of the "dimple" magazine catch on a Model 1911 Colt.

I will mention that those interested in serial numbers also often include not just low numbers but unusual numbers like 12345 or 54321. But, as others have said, once numbers get into 3-4 digits, they become just numbers.

Jim
 
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