Questions about Unique

T

Tsquared

New member
I have had a 1# bottle of Unique powder sitting on the shelf for about 2 years. I haven't used Unique in over 15 years and this was an impulse buy as pistol power was scarce then. When I last used Unique it was for 38Spc with a fairly soft load.

Using my Speer manual I looked up the recommended loads for 9mm 124gr GDHP is 5.8gr max yielding 1,180 fps and 45GAP 185gr GDHP is 7.7gr max yielding 1,009fps. I am getting significantly higher velocity with both using different bullets but at the same weight.

For the 9mm I am using a start load of 5.2 gr and with 124 gr GDHP the Speer manual gets 1080fps and I am using a plated conical flat point and it is getting 1,260 fps at the range. After the first 10 round group I called it quits as I am getting 80 fps faster than what the published max load is. With other powders this bullet is within 30fps of the publish velocity for GDHP's.

I pull out the 45GAP and I have my start at 6.9 and I get 1,112Fps with my plated RN flat points which is over 100 fps faster than the max load. I put the rest of my test loads away and consider this testing session as a wash. There is no sign of "glock smile" or any deformities of the primers so I think I stopped before a KB could happen.

Did I screw up researching this or did I screw up somewhere else? With both of the bullets I have used other powders that have been in line with published results but this is beyond anything I have seen before. BTW: the max value for the Speer manual is the same as the Alliant web page. I am using CCI 500 primers.
 
A plated bullet is not a jacketed bullet. Maybe you should be using cast bullet data? My Lyman cast bullet handbook list 9mm 124g CN /Unique powder start 4.4g max 4.9g
 
A plated bullet can be loaded in the jacketed bullet range with no problems. I am tired after hand priming 750 cases and my reloading shed is locked up so I aint going out in the cold to check your numbers.

Did the cases show any over pressure signs or did the bullets fly apart?
 
Did I screw up researching this or did I screw up somewhere else?
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yes, you did screw up, and no, you didn't. :D

No KA-BOOM, no cratered primers, pierced primers, no pressure signs on the brass? You didn't screw up.

Where you did screw up is believing that max published loads and velocities are a constant. THEY ARE NOT.

Simply because you don't have the same thing as what was used in testing the published loads. Even if you could match the same lot# of powder, bullet, prime and case they used, you would only have something that should be similar. Similar, because it cannot be an exact match, you have a different gun! That is why ALL published reloading data can only be a guideline.

So, you're getting a lot faster speed than they did with the same powder charge, with a bullet of the same weight, but not the same construction.
That matters.

What barrel length did they use? What are you using?
That matters.

There are a LOT of factors that work together to deliver the velocity you get. Only ONE of them is the powder.

I have seen 3 different guns with the same barrel length deliver a 100fps spread shooting the same ammo!

Some guns are simply "faster" than others with the same load. While most of the time the velocity variation between guns with the same barrel length is much smaller a 100fps variation is not unheard of. Half that, or less is common, but exceptions do happen.

For comparison ONLY, here is some 9mm Speer data from 1974
125gr JSP Unique start load 5.5gr 1061fps. Max 5.9gr 1155fps
125 Lead RN Unique start load 4.1gr 911fps Max 4.5gr 1007fps
Gun used S&W Model 39 4" barrel
Speer cases CCI 500 primer

And some Hornady data from 1980
again, the test gun is a S&W model 39 (4" barrel)
cases are Frontier, primer is Federal 100
124gr FMJ Unique start 3.7gr 900fps Max 5.1gr 1100fps

Different guns (although the same make and model different individual guns), different components, different results.

Compare it with current data....today, with a different...everything, and compare that with what you are using, which is also a slightly different..everything.

It is remotely possible that your can of Unique may have slightly altered over time. 2 years, sittin on a shelf, (in your house? a reasonably temperature controlled environment?) HIGHLY UNLIKELY, but not impossible.

This (remote) possibility is just ONE of many reasons why you 'start low and work up loads carefully". Every gun and ammo component combination can be different. Most are very similar to each other, some are at either end of the bell curve.

Something else to consider, Max listed loads are where the testers decided they should stop, with the gun and ammo they were using. They are a safety boundary, not a safety limit. And what I mean by that is, a boundary is "here's the edge of the swamp, we should go no further, somewhere in there is quicksand.."

A limit is, "this is the edge of a cliff, if we go further we shall fall off and die!"

Note, I am NOT telling you it is ok to exceed any published max load! what I am telling you is that no one would publish a max load that was the blow up limit of the gun, so don't worry about a Ka-BOOM.

BUT every gun is different slightly or maybe a lot, so you might be closer to the danger point with one than with another. Again, why we work up loads carefully, for our own guns.

Sorry for the rant, its late, I'm tired, the dog ate my homework...
I find I'm writing a book, and I'll stop for now, though I've only touched on SOME of the important factors involved.

Hope this helps
 
Even if they were producing test data with the same make and model and barrel length gun as you have, 100fps is insignificant. Velocity is not a pressure indicator. Focus on the things that ARE pressure indictors.
 
Did the cases show any over pressure signs or did the bullets fly apart?
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The spent cases are fine. The primers look like they should with no cratering or flatness to indicate an over pressure. The target I was shooting at had clean holes so I am fairly sure the bullets held together. The manufacturer of the bullets advertise that they can withstand 1500 fps but I not going to go to any lengths to test their claim with a 9mm or 45GAP.

Even if they were producing test data with the same make and model and barrel length gun as you have, 100fps is insignificant.
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I was using the minimum published load and getting results over 100fps over the maximum published load. The load was 180fps over on 9mm and 172fps over on 45. Sorry if there was some confusion in the way I wrote it up. I could understand up to a 100fps difference but I am beyond that.

What is troubling me the most is that I have used these bullets with 4 or 5 other powders and I get results that are closely in line with the published data. With 45GAP there are not many powders that can push a 185 or 200 grain bullet over 1000fps unless they are at max. With the Unique I am getting 1112 fps at 10% below max recommended.

I also want to point out that I had some other target ammo and I ran it through the chrono and it was right in line with what I had tested with it in the past. On the Unique loads there was also a lot more recoil so I don't think I had my chrono acting up. All of the test rounds were loaded on a single stage press and each powder load was measured with a balance scale. I pulled some of the remaining bullets apart and verified the powder loads are weighed correctly.

I am going to use the remaining Unique powder for my 44 Mag. I will load it to 44 SPC and swear off of it once it is gone.
 
Just for comparison: My loads with 124 Gold Dots with Unique powder shows 1136 fps at 5.5 grains in a Glock 19 4.01" barrel. I use CCI 500 primers in Winchester cases. I don't want to go higher in multi-fired cases. My overall length is 1.120"-1.125". I don't recommend using Alliant maximum data for their Gold Dot plated bullets for other jacketed, lead, or plated bullets. Alliant data is excessive for other bullets I've loaded. Wish Alliant hadn't published only data for the Gold Dot bullet but other test data for other type bullets too. I prefer loading 124 gr FMJ RN at 5.0 to 5.2 grains of Unique with an oal at 1.150".
 
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Unique is the only powder I have used in .45ACP and .45 Colt for over 30 years. Jacketed and cast in the ACP and cast in the .45 Colt.

I use it for midrange lead bullet loads in the .44 Magnum.

I don't use it in the 9mm, actually because I have a butt load of Red Dot that works well enough in that little case.

It is a little dirtier than some powders, cleaner than others, meters better than some, not as good as others.

It is a midrange burning rate powder, not perfect for the very heaviest loads in magnums, but if you're careful you can get close. Not the most economical for very light loads, you'll get more rounds per pound of powder from a faster burning powder.

Works very well for medium and medium heavy loads in many calibers, and seems to do a bit better in the larger than 9mm cases.

Does really well for some things, tolerably well for nearly everything, I like Unique and have no need or plans to switch to something else as long as I can get Unique. But, that's just me. :D
 
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