questions about recoil

F

fourdegrees11

Inactive
Whats the best way to determine how much recoil a particular round will have? I understand that a heavy, fast bullet will recoil more then a lighter, slower bullet, but there are so many types of ammunition (all loaded and measured differently) it can get a bit confusing. Is ft-lbs of energy an easy way to look at recoil? I'll give Hornady bullets as an example, I shoot a .44 mag N-frame 2.5" barrel.

180 gr, 1550 fps, 960 ft-lbs
200 gr, 1500 fps, 999 ft-lbs
240 gr, 1350 fps, 971 ft-lbs
300 gr, 1150 fps, 881 ft-lbs

Does this mean the big 300 gr XTP will actually recoil less then the 180 gr, while the 200 gr bullet has more recoil then all of them?
 
Recoil is not proportional to energy.

Recoil is proportional to the momentum of the ejecta. The "ejecta" is everything that comes out of the muzzle as the result of firing. That includes the bullet, of course, but it also includes the gases that result from the combustion of the powder.

Momentum is proportional to the mass of the ejecta times the velocity of the ejecta. You can neglect the gases for a quick & dirty answer.

I would expect the 300gr load you listed to recoil about 24% more than the 180 grn load in your post.
 
nothing is easy

The (sad) truth of "recoil"; regardless of 'the numbers', recoil is felt by individuals.
So it is an 'individual' thing.

That's why we have 'recoil' and "felt recoil".
Gotta shoot them to feel them. For yourself.
 
felt recoil

The best way I know how to tell recoil is to shoot it. If it knocks you on your butt then it's too much gun/load for you. I have yet to feel the recoil when out deer hunting. I am so busy with all the other variables going on that I never feel it when the firearm goes off. Like weshoot said each person is different, go with what works.
 
"weshoot" and "fbrown" are right. PERCEIVED RECOIL is what's important.

158 gr. .358 magnum loads are absolutely painful in a S&W Air Lite snubbie, but I can shoot them all day in my 4" S&W Model 19.

A Bersa .380 is absolutely FUN to shoot while the same round in a Keltec P3AT or Ruger LCP is a handful.

It's not only the physics of force, but the frame it's mounted in, too.
 
It's not only the physics of force, but the frame it's mounted in, too.
Click to expand...
While it is correct that felt recoil will vary from shooter to shooter, the physics calculations will take into account the fact that a heavier gun will recoil less than a lighter gun from the same load. What it won't tell you is things like how a different grip style will affect the shooter's perception of recoil.
 
As usual, JohnKSa is concise and accurate. I would just like to add that mental state of mind plays a big factor in perceived recoil. If you are gritting your teeth and sqeezing like a wild banshee [no offense to banshee's :D] your going to have a worse experience than someone who relaxes and rides with the recoil.
 
"The (sad) truth of "recoil"; regardless of 'the numbers', recoil is felt by individuals.
So it is an 'individual' thing.

That's why we have 'recoil' and "felt recoil".
Gotta shoot them to feel them. For yourself."


That would be ideal, but with the price of .44 mag ammo being what it is I'm trying to figure out the variables ahead of time so I don't have boxes of ammo I'll never use sitting around.
 
Proper fitting grips on a handgun make a BIG difference. Like the late great Bill Jordan I cannot shoot an S&W with factory grips, put a pair of Herrett's or Pachmayrs on and I can fire it all day. Your physical condition plays a big part as well. On RimfireCentral I asked another shooter why he had a recoil pad on a .22. He replied that several operations had given him a glass shoulder. I suspect someone who has been "pumping iron" and keeping fit will have less problem with recoil than someone who hasn't.
 
I understand that there are other variables involved with how one preceives recoil, like the type of grip or even how they are supporting the gun. I'm just trying to figure out which bullet is more likely to kick like a mule.

I'm considering the Black Hills 240 gr JHP because its velocity is 1260 fps, compared to most brands claiming 1400+ fps from their 240 gr pills. The other big kicker is the price of less then $1 per bullet.
 
I understand that there are other variables involved with how one preceives recoil, like the type of grip or even how they are supporting the gun. I'm just trying to figure out which bullet is more likely to kick like a mule.
Click to expand...


For curiosity's sake...

Why not just sell it and get a gun that DOESN'T kick like a mule AND is cheaper to shoot? Like a 9mm or .357 or .327mag or .45acp or... just about anything besides .44mag?
 
This concept of "perceived recoil" is often discussed but it is not real, in my opinion. Perceived Recoil is some kind of theoretic recoil based on noise, muzzle jump, etc.

If a shorter barrel gun were to weigh the same ( and they usually don't ) but if they did, then the recoil in a 3" barrel and a 6" barrel - for any given load, is identical.

Recoil is a function primarily of the weight of the bullet, the velocity of the load and the weight of the gun. Calculations also take into account the weight of the powder - but that's a minor issue. Shooting hot loads in a very light gun can be challenging vs shooting them in a heavier gun.

The experts say recoil is cumulative too - so over time it wears you down physically and mentally. I like shooting .44 mag - but real heavy loads in a light gun will take its toll. Of the loads you listed - the first one is about 16% less recoil than the last one.
 
For curiosity's sake...

Why not just sell it and get a gun that DOESN'T kick like a mule AND is cheaper to shoot? Like a 9mm or .357 or .327mag or .45acp or... just about anything besides .44mag?
Click to expand...


It's a limited edition S&W. I plan on keeping it. It's the only handgun I have at the moment so it has to serve all roles (SD and wilderness). Eventually I'll get something lighter but finances are tight at the moment so this is what I have to work with.
 
There is a formular for figuring recol

But its quite extensive and long winded. If I can get my scanner fixed I'll scan the fomular and how to use it from Hatcher's Notebook. But I'm not about to type it here, its several pages, which most will ignor anyway.

When I get it scanned, I'll send it to who ever is interested.

I would highly recommend that any one who is interested in firearms and shooting beyond the normal every day stuff, get a copy of Hatchers Notebook. Barnes and Noble & Amazon has them for about $35 bucks.
 
BigJimP said:
This concept of "perceived recoil" is often discussed but it is not real, in my opinion. Perceived Recoil is some kind of theoretic recoil based on noise, muzzle jump, etc.
Click to expand...
Not really. Perceived recoil is just that, perceived. It's just a way of describing how a certain gun and load feel to each different individual. Actual recoil depends on the load, weight of the gun, caliber etc. There's really nothing theoretical about the way I feel recoil. How I feel it is how I feel it, and so on for every different person. It is true that two guns of like weight and caliber, regardless of bbl. length will recoil the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top