Questions about medium velocity .357 MAG loads & Ruger GP100.

J

JNB01

Inactive
I'm thinking about purchasing a 4in. bbl'd Ruger GP100 for home defense. I would like opinions on this revolver. Also, not being very familiar w/ revolvers, what is the difference between a short or full ejector shroud, & what does the 4in. bbl'd model weigh?

My reason for purchasing this gun, is it would be used by my fiance as well, & she seems to be more comfortable w/ revolvers.

Full house .357 loads would probably be a bit much for her, & something I wouldn't exactly want to touch off after waking from a dead sleep.

Would the medium velocity loads like the 125gr. GS or 125gr. ProLoad "lite" be a better choice? What do these loads compare to as far as recoil and blast? Another option would be the 158gr. +P .38 loads, how do the med. vel. loads compare to these in terms of recoil & blast?

Thanks in advance, JNB01!
 
Believe me, You don't want to light-off a .357 Magnum in your house!

The muzzle blast will be deafening and muzzle flash may cause temporary night-blindness.

Work with your fiance at the range, starting with the light-recoiling, .38 Special, 148 grain wadcutters and slowly working up from there. I wouldn't want to use any ammo that she can't handle comfortably.

The maximum I would go, and only if your fiance can handle it, would be the .38 Special +P lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoint.

-Mk.IV
 
Just about any handgun fired indoors will be an ear popper. However, given the range of an indoor encounter, 38spl should be ample for defense if you want to lighten her recoil from 357 Magnums. You'll find a lot of different velocities, amounts of noise, and amounts of flash from different manufacturers. There are so many variables besides bullet construction and weight. Certain powders burn faster than others and some load their stuff hotter than others. My best advice to you would be to buy the gun that you both like and then try a bunch of different ammo until you find a perfect match.
 
I would also chime in on the .38+P option, especially a 158 lead hollowpoint. The Winchester version is pretty good, the Remington is supposedly loaded a hair hotter. From a 4" tube, you'll get enough velocity either way, only us 2" snubbie freaks really need to get that anal.

Federal's version of this load is the 158+P "Nyclad", it's just a lead hollowpoint dipped in plastic so it doesn't lead the barrel. Also not a bad choice.

The lowest-recoil defense load we generally recommend for .38 is the Federal Nyclad 125grain, in the "non +P" flavor. You should start your wife on target wacutters which are very low recoil, an then try her on those Nyclad 125s. Then try the 158+p - if that latter gives her trouble, the Nyclad 125 is still decent. BUT, the GP100 is a good gun, a hair heavy, and soaks up recoil very well. Unless she's very small or has unusually weak wrists, the 158+Ps will feel fine.

The full-shroud barrel makes the gun a bit more "nose heavy", which means less recoil and for some people, a more stable front sight. I personally prefer lighter barrels with the weight back further into the hand, making the barrel easier to swing, and the gun easier to carry. Since the GP100 is already a moderadely heavy gun, I personally would recommend the lighter barrel setup.
 
KGP-141 = 41oz w/full shroud.

38 Special load = Federal 129g Hydra-Shok (and I manufacture ammo!)

Buy this gun, both of you practice, and never look back.
 

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.357 Magnum loads don't necessarily have lots of muzzle flash anymore than anything else. I don't recommend starting with full house magnum loads, either, but no reason not to work your way up to something more effective if you can.
 
KGP-141 is an excellent -- perhaps the best -- multi-purpose revolver: accurate, durable, reliable, strong as a bank vault, and very well designed and manufactured. I own two and have been completely happy with every element of their performance. They excel in target shooting/plinking, competition, personal/home defense, and wilderness roles. By the way, MANY excellent Colt, Smith and Ruger .38/.357s are readily available; I happen to like the KGP-141 in the four-inch barrel category.

One thought regarding home-defense is to load two or three top-rated .38 Specials (probably +Ps) rounds of your choosing (Nyclads, HydraShok, etc.) followed by three or four .357 magnum loads. In this way, you are very likely to resolve any problems with the .38s, but have the .357s "on line" for extremis situations.
 
The Ruger is a great choice. IMO, one of the finest revolvers ever made but it's an injustice to stok that great revolver with 38spl fodder for self-defense.
Presently, I've got Pro-loads 125gr 357 maggie "Tactical lites" in my S&W M13 as my house gun. I REALLY like these loads. The recoil is nowhere near a full house 125gr load. I just feel "Tactical Lites" would perform alot better than ANY 38spl load excepting maybe Cor-Bons 38spl offerings. Just My Thoughts, J. Parker
 
With a .357, what kind of load would be best if you're trying to minimize penetration through a condominium wall into another unit?

The wall in question is a double fire wall: sheetrock, insulation, studs, sheetrock, studs, insulation, sheetrock.

Hotboy
 
Thanks to all who have replied!

As stated in my original post, I wouldn't be using the "full house" .357 loads, that's why I inquired about the "lite" or med. vel. loads such as ProLoads tact. lite that J. Parker referred to.

125gr. Rem. GS: 1220 fps/ 413 fpe.
125gr. Rem. std. jhp: 1450 fps/ 584 fpe.

ProLoad 125gr. "tact. lite": 1125 fps/ 351 fpe.
ProLoad 125gr. "full house": 1500 fps/ 624 fpe.

I would appreciate hearing more from anyone who has shot these two loads. What do they best compare to in terms of recoil & blast, & how do they compare to the 158gr. +P loads.

Thanks again, JNB01!
 
You know, I have no clue which would crash'n'boom more, between the 158+P .38Spl or that Proload lite 125 in .357.

I suspect raw energy would be in the same ballpark...lesse, Winchester specs their 158+P at 950fps from a 4" tube.

Per http://www.naaminis.com/energy.html that's 315ft/lbs energy.

The 125 at 1,125fps nets more, at 351ft/lbs.

Score one for the Proload. But that's not the whole story. With more weight, the 158 may punch deeper. And being unjacketed, expansion is more likely. The 158s have been around a LONG time, it's very well understood how they work.

Every projectile has it's own "speed range" it's happy in; too fast and the nose will "shred", which is no good. The wound starts as .36cal, expands to maybe 45 or 50, but then drops back to .36cal with a dribble of lead fragments behind it and about 25% less projectile weight in the end. The nose fragments don't get "flung forward" the way they do in a frangible, so they don't significantly add to wounding effects. Too slow, it doesn't expand, and you might as well shoot FMJ.

I'd be curious to see if Proload uses a different casting of 125 projectile for their full house versus taclite ammo. The slower stuff needs a fatter-mouth hollow with thinner walls and probably deeper. If they're NOT different, I'd look for independent tests of 'em, or make a judgement call as to which speed range they were designed for. Compare them to a Remington full-house 125 visually, that's a "high speed" type and really looks it.

I strongly doubt any JHP will function cleanly across a 300fps velocity range!!!

If I wasn't sure of what I was looking at, I'd err on the side of caution and go with the "old standard", the 158+P workhorse.
 
Best thing about my KGP-141 GP100 is that the more rounds I put through it, the smoother the double action trigger gets. There's no way I'd trade mine for a new one now. It'd cost me several hundred bucks for range and ammo time to put enough rounds through a new one to get the double action trigger broke in again.

Fine revolver.
 
There's two grips available for GP100s...

Study the Ruger pictures carefully, and you'll see that fixed-sight GP100s come with a smaller factory grip than adjustable-sight variants. The smaller grip is more of a "round-butt" and is also shorter.

The small grip can be retrofitted for about $30 total.

At the gunshop, have her try out the feel of the smaller grip on a fixed-sight gun. You can then buy an adjustable-sight gun if you want, but order the smaller grip. It's similar in size to an SP101 grip.
 
ProLoad's .357 Tactical Lite uses a 125 gr Gold Dot bullet. This looks like a very nice load. Just a little hotter than +P. Muzzle flash IIRC is also reduced significantly. My recommendation is to take some shooting and see how they feel. My gf prefers the stiffer loads in her SP-101. I might try the tac lites in that.
 
muzzle blast

if you are worried about the noise factor forget it. trust me.........if it is life or death you will never hear the shot. i know from experience
 
FWIW

I'm not qualified to comment on loads, etc. BUT I do have experience shooting 38s in a .357 Mag.

I started out with 38s many years ago and can handle the recoil - OK. It's a little "stout" for a man with no thumbs! :)

Therefore, I shoot standard 38s (HydraShoks for CCW) in a Rossi .357, 4" bbl. The 357 k-frame, w/ full under-bbl lug, is somewhat heavy for daily CCW. but it more than makes up for it in the area of recoil control. It is a pleasure to shoot.

Any, that's what works in my case. YMMV.

Good luck and be safe..............
 
My GP-100 6" barrel is loaded with .38+P HydraShoks. Same load for my S&W 66 2-1/2" barrel. Both are in the house.

If it comes down to needing it, noise and muzzle flash are absolutely NOT something I'm concerned about...
 
The GP-100 has absolutely the best factory (or anything else for that matter) grip around. It is my favorite handgun and the one I shoot best. An excellent choice.
 
I can tell you this much, a 38 +P golden saber out of a S&W 686 with a 2 1/2" barrel will go through a house wall, cabinet and lodge into the opposite side cabinets door. I really dont want to go through the details do to embarrassment. But it did penetrate the said obstructions and didnt even expand. Scared the hell out of me when it went off but I didnt loose much hearing and the flash wasnt bad at all. Ears ringed for about 10 minutes though. That was in my newbie times and I have come a long way since. No need to worry any further fellas.....Reminds me of a thread from the past.
 
Jim March wrote:

I'd be curious to see if Proload uses a different casting of 125 projectile for their full house versus taclite ammo.
Click to expand...

They do indeed. IIRC, the Lite uses a Gold Dot with a deep cavity, and the full magnum uses a Gold Dot with a very shallow cavity (almost a concave depression, as opposed to a typical hollow point).

At one time I recall Speer selling these two Gold Dots as reloading components. One was for .38 Special velocities, the other for magnum velocities. Now they only catalog one 125 grain Gold Dot. Either ProLoad is working from old stock, or Speer makes a special run for them. I don't think they're using a .357 Sig Gold Dot, since those are sized .355".
 
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