Questions about loading for a newbie

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LCS612

Inactive
I'm new to the forum, as well as reloading (have not actually set up my work station yet) but have done a good bit of research in preparation for this new adventure. I've browsed through the forums for a while now, and decided it was time to create an account and ask some questions.

I primarily carry/shoot .40 (S&W M&P40 and 40C), and wanted the more economic option of getting more range time without constantly buying factory ammo, so my wife bought me a Lee Challenger single stage press kit, as well as a Lee .40S&W die set. I am also in the process of getting a brass tumbler (I have a plethora of spent brass from the range I've been collecting for the past few years...), additional quick change bushings for the dies, caliper, etc, and am currently in a tossup for choice of reloading manuals...currently looking through the new Hodgdon booklet a buddy let me borrow. I have also researched online for ideas of what type bullet/powder combination I want to start with.

I'll start by saying I'm not too terribly picky about what type of load I have, as I want to be able to shoot quantity first to really hunker down on my own mechanics, and then move toward finding that "perfect load" for my own tastes. The duty ammo I carry is 180gr Winchester Ranger JHP and I want to practice with the same weight, so I want a 180gr bullet.

I have a friend who has been reloading for years (same one who lent me the Hodgdon book), but he only shoots 9mm/.45acp and has no experience with hand loading a .40 round. He uses Titegroup powder, and is more than willing to help me out and set me up with some to start loading, but I've read about how hot it is and the potential for over-charging/pressure issues in .40S&W if not careful. I'm looking for some feedback from the community as far as success using Titegroup, specifically with 180gr bullets. Trying to get a ballpark idea of a tried and true load to get started with until I get more comfortable with.

I will also eventually be loading .223 and .30-06, but want to get used to loading my pistol rounds first as that is my primary.

Last question...

I recently won a Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull at a fundraiser. It is definitely a "fun gun" with no practical application for my own needs, other than maybe if I go camping and want something for bear defense. Unfortunately, the only way I can economically afford to shoot it even somewhat regularly is with hand loads ($48/20rds at the only local gun shop that carries it in stock). I don't plan on experimenting with that until further down the line, but does anyone have experience reloading .454? I have no local resources to tap into, and I've read it is a somewhat finicky and temperamental round with a narrow "sweet spot" for success.

Thank you for any and all input, and I look forward to being a part of this awesome community.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk
 
LCS Welcome to the community!

Reloading can be very fun and relaxing. As you have a close friend for guidance it really gives you a head start. Either the Lyman or the Lee would be a good choice for a manual and are readily available everywhere.

I don't shoot 40cal either but the procedures will be the same as other auto loaders.

As for bullets there are many ways to go. Cast lead, plated or jacketed. For practice/target loads cast or plated is the way to go. Then since you will be loading on a single stage press you can more easily get away with using some of the hotter/faster powders as you can hand measure and weigh each charge before setting the bullets. So when you get your manual with load data find a bullet and powder that fits your needs that are listed in the manual and start having yourself a good time.
 
Watch your OAL, keep it as long as possible and still feeds reliable in the gun, too short and you can run into problems. Lighter bullets will help, I use 165gr.

Some don't like Titegroup, fast burning dense powders can get you into trouble. I use Hodgdon Universal, under a 180 plated, 4.8-5.0gr works well.
 
If your friend is willing to set you up with a small amount of Titegroup then by all means try it. It doesn't take a lot of powder to load up a hundred or two to get a feel for what your are doing.

With just getting started the most important thing to do is to build a repeatable routine and understanding the steps involved for a safe practice. For your 1st time set up the process and go through each step one at a time from start to finish. Take your time. Speed will come with practice.

Get your manual and find the bullets that have data for Titegroup as that is the one component that you will already have on hand and select a bullet that fits what you want to do.

Think of this, a 1# jar of powder will load 1400 rounds at a 5gr. charge so 200 rounds is only 1/7th of a pound. So if you don't like the powder after trying it you haven't used much and can move on to a different powder.
 
Speed isn't going to factor into my routine too much, I enjoy meanial tasks to help de-stress so loading each round individually is something I actually look forward to. If it takes me an hour to load 50 rounds, I'll be a lot more relaxed when I'm done and still have 50 more rounds than when I started.

I want to try to use the Titegroup because my buddy sometimes buys it bulk to save money, and often looks for others to go in with him on it. I'll probably start with it and see how things go, if I don't feel comfortable I'll switch to something else.

As for finding the right combination if I choose to go a completely different direction...is it easier/better to pick a bullet type first and then a powder based on the bullet? Or powder first and then compatible bullet?
 
You picked a fantastic forum to hang out around and welcome, BTW.

Titegroup: an extremely versatile powder, one of the most economical powders on the market and meters very well. Titegroup is also one of my LEAST favorite powders ever and if I get to make the decision, I am almost ALWAYS going to recommend a different powder that I personally feel is every bit as good or better.

I do not like Titegroup because it uses such small charge weights, it uses a very short charge range, and it's a high-nitro powder that runs HOT (like temperature hot) and that translates to hot guns that are no fun to touch.

Two of the biggest reasons folks like Titegroup are the small charge weight which lowers their "cost" of powder and because it can be used in so many different chamberings... it allows folks to have less powders and "do more" with less.

I believe BOTH of those reasons are seriously false economy. When you step back (grab a calculator) and see what you actually spend on powder in handgun ammo... powder is -SO- irrationally inexpensive that it's almost a joke to pick a powder specifically to save money. Now if you are talking huge rounds like that .454 or rifle ammo where you run 25 to 60 grains of powder than sure. But handgun ammo where you may run 4-7 grains...?

The other idea that using Titegroup across a whole array of calibers allows you to keep less powders... well okay, as long as it's totally okay with you that you will definitely NOT be using the best powder in all of them and in some of them, you really won't be making ammo anywhere near your capability if you are stuck using Titegroup out of it's best range.

With all that said...
Sure, you can use it in .40S&W, that's not a horrible choice. But I do not -- never would -- never will.

For .40cal I use both 165 & 180gr slugs, great experience with both Berry's and Xtreme plated, and I use Alliant Power Pistol exclusively.
 
As you get into it you will start to find that with powders some are more versatile than others and will work with many calibers and bullet weights. Some are also more forgiving and do not build pressures as fast.

Bullets become more function orientated. Meaning weight, shape and material.
Many shoot cast lead because it's cheapest and very versatile. Some shoot plated because it too is inexpensive and can be cleaner. Some indoor ranges will not allow cast lead, some don't even allow reloads. Then jacketed because it can be loaded to higher pressures and velocities.

I would suggest when you look thru the load data pick out a couple bullets that you'd like to try and then look to see which powders can be used with all of them with published load data.
 
Titegroup Defender

Titegroup is an excellent and highly efficient powder making for very accurate pistol loads. I use Bullseye, another excellent powder, and I have heard similar criticisms on forums for many years. The powder charges are low, you could double charge etc.

Reloading is about safety being the first priority, quality control, and following proper procedures meticulously. If you do that, you don't have to worry about Titegroup, or Bullseye, or W231, or any other fine powder we have a available.
 
LCS612, here's some personal info on the .454. I started reloading a Freedom Arms .454 about 30 years ago. Extremely well made and tolerances are so tight that the cylinder won't rotate if the primers are not seated deeply enough.
The first primers were Large Pistol but Freedom Arms changed the recommendation to Small Rifle Primers for more reliable ignition. The brass I had was useless as a result so FA supplied small inserts to be placed in the primer pocket. That didn't work too well for me as more frequently than I was comfortable, there were misfires. Over time I accumulated new brass with proper primer pockets.

I began with 200gr and 225gr Speer bullets, using data given by Freedom Arms. As time went on recommendation was offered NOT to use a bullet with a thin jacket,and the reason became clear in my Ruger .44 Mag SuperBlack Hawk! The barrel split like a piece of bamboo and Ruger evaluation suggested a thin jacketed bullet leaves a ring of copper in the barrel which acts as an obstruction. Since then I've moved to 300gr bullets from Hornady and Sierra and no problems have ever surfaced.

I use H110 powder (W296 is the same), 30.0gr with a 300gr Hornady XTP, CCI400 or Remington 7-1/2 primer. Velocity is around 1700 fps. Recoil is substantial but nothing to fear; I just can't shoot more than 20 rounds without starting to anticipate recoil. I've not found it to be difficult to achieve an accurate load, but that may depend on the gun itself. I hope this helps and welcome to the site.
 
If you haven't already, go to all the reloading forums and read the "stickies" on beginner reloading.

Consider that you'll be batch processing everything, i.e. size/decap all cases, prime all cases, etc.

I suggest cleaning if needed, size/deprime, trim if needed (most handgun cases do not need trimming), prime (a tool such as the RCBS Universal saves a lot of time), drop powder/weigh in the number of cases you intend to load, seat bullet, crimp if needed (many handgun and many rifle cases do not need a crimp)

Put your load data on or in package with the ammo.

Don't forget your safety glasses.

Mike
 
A light practice load that works for me is 165 Speer TMJ, CCI 500, 7 gr Power Pistol, COL 1.12. Runs just over 1,000 fps from my Glock 23. I am a big fan of PP for autoloaders. Meters very well.
 
I like the HS-6 powder for a good solid 40 load. I used 180 grain Montana Gold Bullets.
I load 165 grain Rocky Mountain Reloading bullets with HP-38 for my brother.
I find Power Pistol to have more muzzle flash.
But since getting my 1911 my 40 shooting has dropped to an occasional mercy trip to the range for my 40.
 
Welcome to the wonderful, oft frustrating/confusing world of reloading. Even with a mentor I'd suggest a text; The ABCs of Reloading which will explain the "how to" and the "whys" and add insight to equipment needs.

As far as manuals, I'd suggest Lyman's 50th as it has an excellent "how to" section and is sorta "generic" as it isn't manufacturer specific. Also choose a bullet and get the manual published by the bullet's manufacturer. It's helpful for bullet specific measurements like cartridge OAL. You can't have too many manuals.

FWIW, this is my "mantra" and I suggest it to new reloaders; I pay very little (no) attention to any forum expert, range rat, pet loads website, gun counter clerk, or gun shop guru when it comes to load data. I get my load data from published reloading manuals and have safely reloaded for 30 years with this information only. I have used/read data from powder manufacturer's websites, but usually it's not necessary. These folks prolly are just being helpful, but I've seen dangerous loads suggested online, and heard some really questionable loads at the range...

Go slow,double check everything, and most important, have fun...:D
 
"...won a Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull..." Congratulations. How long's the barrel? Lotta cartridge(big SOB revolver too) for a new shooter, but you can shoot .45 Colt(starts at roughly $20 per 20. $15 for Jameson from Graf's. The .454 runs about $10 more.) out of it too.
Graff's is listing 100 pcs of used(doesn't say how used, but it's cleaned and not deprimed.) Casull brass at $25.99 per 100. Starline runs $38.99.
9mm, .45ACP and .40 S&W are all loaded pretty much the same way. Brands of brass, primers and bullets don't make a lot of difference. Cast bullets are less expensive to shoot and are usually loaded for target shooting.
Your manual does not have to be manufacturer specific. One loads according to the bullet weight. Not who made it(or its shape/construction). That being said, buy the Lyman book because it's far more versatile than any powder or bullet maker's book.
And a big kid's toys don't need a practical application. The fun of 'em is enough. As long as the thing fits your hand.
 
Powder

Hello All,

I was recent owner of a used RL550 (maybe a 550b). I need to buy a scale and and re check all the dies before I start.

I was given a can of Winchester powder, casing and bullets too with the RL550. Is there a way to test the powder?

If the power is old (not useable) how does one dispose of the old powder?

Thank you
TG
 
LCS612
Your doing everything right. Reading all you can on the subject, your way ahead of most. On powders, there are favorites in every caliber but it all comes down to what your firearm likes & bullet combo. Can try two different 1 lb suggested powders for you caliber & barrel length.
Brass, I would separate in brands. Some brands are thicker, never liked mixing brass. Shoot the same brass type for each test.
I changed to a wet tumbler with stainless steel pins after 25 + years using the the media tumblers. Brass comes out like brand new.
Powder charge , start at a safe midrange listed load. Auto's use a taper crimp, revolvers a roll crimp. Two different dies, but in reading you already know that. Get a good powder scale , powder charger, case trimmer, calipers, case gauge & chamfer inside an out. Doesn't matter what caliber, the process is the same. Making your first bullet, is that same feeling when you passed your driving test. Now get started.
 
Tailsgunner: powder should be fine if it doesn't have a bitter smell or off-color particles in it. If it's been stored properly, age is not much of an issue. Powder stays good for decades if it's kept cool in a proper container. If you think it's bad and want to dispose of it just spread it on your flower bed. It's good fertilizer.
 
TiteGroup

I'm a little late to the party, but I'll chime in . . .

First off - everything Sevens said. There; that saved me a lot of typing :p.

I've read about how hot it is and the potential for over-charging/pressure issues in .40S&W if not careful. I'm looking for some feedback from the community as far as success using Titegroup, specifically with 180gr bullets.
Click to expand...

I don't load for 40 S&W. But I do load for 10mm and I do load with TiteGroup a lot. I will also tell you - and you can ask anyone who follows my posts - that I am a "fast powder centric" loader. Meaning, I tend to choose powders a tick or two faster for a given application than most loaders. Or so it anecdotally seems, at least.

That said, I believe that TiteGroup is a pretty spunky (fast AND energetic) propellant to put under a heavy 180gn bullet in 40 S&W. It can be done, yes. But your pressure curve will be steep and your load window will be narrow - both characteristics better left for the experienced loader.

And because it's the wrong burn rate for your application - emulating 180gn factory ammo - you won't achieve your goal. It's just too fast for your application - period.

You want something in the intermediate burn rate range. For your application and with your load experience, my recommendation is HS-6. It's the correct burn rate. And it's a low-energy propellant and is thus very forgiving - an excellent characteristic for the novice loader.

HS-6 has a reputation for not running clean. But it cleans up when it's loaded up to proper pressures - just where you need to be loading for your application ;).

Accurate Arms #5 (AA#5) would also be a good choice. It's just a tick faster than HS-6, and a bit more temperamental too. But all-in-all, it'd be a pretty good choice.

AA#7 is worthy of consideration. But it's a bit slow. And as such, will be very forgiving for the novice loader. The down side is that it won't run right until you pump it up real good. And I think it would be better to get a little more loading experience before going down that road. Make no mistake, it will make some fine full-power rounds under those heavy 180's - probably spunkier than the factory ammo you've been shooting. But maybe now is not the time.

I don't recommend:

Power Pistol. Although in the right burn rate range, it's too energetic for a novice loader using 180's. Like TiteGroup, you'll be dealing with a steep pressure curve. Power Pistol is awesome stuff. But I don't recommend it for the novice loader. And once you get some, start playing with it using lighter bullets - where it's more forgiving. Power Pistol can make bullets go fast; but it can also bite. Save it for another time.

Unique. Again, in the right burn rate range; but it is very large flaked and doesn't meter well. It's not a major problem (otherwise, it wouldn't be so popular), but I think it's enough of an issue to not deal with it as you're learning how to load. Again, maybe another time.

To wrap it all up: If it was me, I'd be looking for HS-6, then AA#5 if I couldn't find it. (HS-6 is generally more available than AA#5.)
 
Unique, Winchester 231 and HP38 (they're the same powder with a different label), WST and WSF are all good in the .40. Currently, WSF and HP38 are easy to find in LGS's, and will serve you well if you load other calibers. Both are good for target to mid-level loads. Rod
 
I use Titegroup for all of my pistol reloads.

I like 4.4 gr for Xtreme 180 grain RNFP plated bullets. Nice target load and runs great in a P229, Glock 22 and XDS-40.
 
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