Question regarding non self defense issues.

K

keithdog

New member
I've been trying to find info regarding use of a hand gun for purposes that don't immediately meet self defense status. Specifically, I am referring to using deadly force via a fire arm to defend or protect a third person party from a potentially deadly threat. For example, you are in a 7-11 convenience store when an armed robber walks in and points a gun at the teller and demands cash. As a person licensed to carry, do I have the right to use my hand gun to eliminate the threat? Or perhaps you see a large man beating another smaller person senseless to the point of serious bodily injury. Can you draw your weapon to defend the victim?
Personally, I'd rather allow someone to be robbed without killing the offender and let the police handle the outcome. Protecting a few dollars or a car is not worth ending some ones life and potentially putting myself in front of a jury. However, what if it looks obvious that there is an immediate threat to a third person's life or safety? Am I able to use deadly force to end the threat? I live in Indiana, and here, the gun laws are rather liberal in the favor of the good guys. But, being certain is better than assuming.
 
There are 50 states, plus the District of Columbia. There is no substitute for reading and understanding the laws of your own state.

In general, the laws of most states allow an "actor" to use force -- and lethal/deadly force -- in defense of a third party under the exact same circumstances and to the same extent that the "actor" would be allowed to use force or deadly force in defense of himself.
 
In the vast majority of US states you can use deadly force to stop an obvious lethal criminal threat to somebody else. There are a few where you can't. You need to know which is which.
 
Use of force training, laws....

In the events you described, you could use lethal force to defend yourself & others if needed. But I would consider the tactical applications too.
You can't put yourself in a event where you're at a tactical disadvantage.
Taking a few courses if you can or buying a few DVDs/guides may help.

There have been a rash of armed robberies in my area. Mostly hotel lobbies & small stores open 24/07. They crooks are all armed & work fast(from the LE videos provided to the media). A few of the crimes involve women.
Could you use lethal force or react quickly in a dynamic event like a robbery?
Can you draw & fire without any risks to bystanders or employees?

Clyde
www.handgunlaw.us www.gunguide.com www.deltapress.com www.paladin-press.com www.glockstore.com www.magpul.com www.massadayoobgroup.com www.nra.org www.vickerstactical.com
 
keithdog said:
...I am referring to using deadly force via a fire arm to defend or protect a third person party from a potentially deadly threat...
Click to expand...
These can be complex situations, and what would constitute an appropriate response is highly dependent on (1) exactly what is happening and how it is happening; (2) how well you really understand what is going on; and (3) what your true skill level is.

  • Third Party Defense

    • This has been discussed at length on this board, including here, here, here, and here.

    • You may be legally justified in using lethal force in defense of others, but in doing so, you step into the shoes of the person you are defending. If that person would have been justified to use lethal force to defend himself, you would be justified in using lethal force in his defense. But if not, your act of violence would be a criminal act subjecting you to prosecution, conviction and jail.

    • So if you are considering using force in defense of someone, are you sure you know what happened? Are you sure you know who the original aggressor was? Are you sure that the person you intend to help is the innocent good guy? If you think you know, but are wrong, you are risking jail and your family's future.

    • You might think a kid is being kidnapped, but no one is going to be giving you the key to the city for shooting the father taking his kid, in mid-tantrum, outside for a "time out. You think that a scruffy bum is beating up some guy, but you won't get a medal for shooting an undercover cop trying to arrest a pimp who is resisting. You'll be going to jail instead. And you certainly won't be getting any congratulations if you injured an innocent bystander in the process.

    • And if you think you know, but are wrong, you will be shooting the innocent good guy.

  • The Rampage in a Crowd

    • We've had a few discussions on that topic as well, including here, here, here, here, and here.

    • How you might be able to effectively deal with such a situation will depend on exactly what is happening and how, what tools you have available and what your skill level is.

    • A confined area crowded with panicking people presents a difficult situation for even a very well trained and skilled person. Michael Bane in a recent article described the results of modeling the Aurora Theater incident. In the Gabrielle Giffords, bystanders were able to physically subdue the gunman.

    • The point for the armed private citizen would be to exercise good judgment so as to not do more harm than good.
 
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