Question on wadcutters:

S

skydiver3346

New member
Just curious, does anyone mfg. a .38 special wadcutter in the +P version? I really like shooting wadcutters for practice with my snubbies and seems to me that this set up (+P wadcutter) might make a great defensive round too?
 
I do most of my practice with WCs, but I carry SWCs. I use a saco double ended WC, 148 grn and my SWC is a Lvman 150 grn (358477), they both shoot pretty much the same place even though the SWC had a bit more velocity.

You have more surface area on the WC (with the same weight) so you're gonna have to back off the powder bit to keep pressure down.

My thinking is the SWC gives you almost the same effect, with a bit more velocity. Plus the SWCs work better with speed loaders.

This is out of my 642 Pocket Revolver.
 
I don't know if you could drive a WC at +P velocities. If so, it would need to be a hard cast solid base bullet. Most of my experience is using 148 gr. HBWC's and they tended to work best in the 700 - 800 fps range. Using a 148 gr. BBWC cast from a Lee mold, I could get into the 800 - 900 fps range with acceptable accuracy. That would be short of +P range. Traditional WC's have the aerodynamics of a Santa Fe boxcar and at higher velocities, they tended to tumble and key hole. Of course for up close PD, you may want a bullet that tumbles. All my use of WC's were with a 8"- Python Target model at 25 yards.
 
All my use of WC's were with a 8"- Python Target model at 25 yards.
Click to expand...

[wink] Well, yeah, SVO, but what if you switched to a revolver designed for maximum accuracy? [/wink]

Seriously: wadcutters don't expand very well. They do an excellent job of flying straight and cutting holes in paper targets, but a mediocre job of persuading criminals to halt their predations right this instant.
 
add ref to LEE mold

Commercially loaded WC's are intended to punch neat holes in target stock at mid-range velocities. They are set deep in the case (limiting available powder volume) to accommodate guns like the S&W Model 52 Master. Of course, you can load them any way you like; but, the bullets are typically pretty soft (the popular bulk packaged Remingtons come to mind). If you shoot them at +P velocities, then in addition to the previously mentioned problems, you'll soon be experiencing heavy leading.
For something similar, look into a gas checked lead bullet, like the Lyman's 155 gr # 358156 or LEE's C358-158-SWC, for your +P velocities.

c358158s.gif
 
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The only hot factory WCs that I know of are the BB WCs that Jim's referring to, and they're pretty hard.

Like others have pointed out, accuracy and leading are concerns.

FWIW the gelatin tests the I've seen for standard DE and HB WC aren't bad.
 
Most hollow based wadcutters are swaged lead and dead soft.

Driving them fast will lead up the barrel and can even result in them coming apart in flight.
The soft lead and thin cross section at the hollow base can open up in flight.
Accuracy becomes VERY poor.
Very high pressure has been reported to blow through the hollow base and leave a lead ring in the barrel from the skirt.

Double ended wadcutters are available hard cast, and you could drive them until they to start to lead the barrel with little worry.
 
Last time I checked, the hottest "regular" wadcutters were Fiocchi. If memory serves, they run about the same fps as nonwadcutter fmj/lrn rounds in the 158 grn variety.

But yeah, you're probably better served by modern expanding hollowpoints. Just my opinion, but the idea of turning around a hollow-based wadcutter, lead semi-wadcutter hollowpoints, etc predated modern hollowpoint designs.

Unfortunately, the only rounds I trust in my pre+P model 36 are the buffalo bore standard pressure LSWCHP and the Federal nyclads, the latter being almost impossible to find.
 
You get 2 feet of penetration in ballistic gelatin with the Buffalo Bore DEWC
http://www.brassfetcher.com/Buffalo...r standard pressure Hard Cast Wad Cutter.html
It is hard cast. You can get hard cast 148 grain DEWC bullets from Missouri Bullets BHN 16 and Oregon Trail Laser Cast around 20 BHN and Buffalo Bore 21 to 22BHN. Any of these will penetrate real good and shoot through most "targets." For some reason the DEWC penetrate much more than one would expect at modest velocities. Makes a lot of sense to use them - accurate, widest meplat possible, low recoil, and excellent penetration.
 
havent tried this, but what about a DEWC with a gas check. should be able to get 1000fps and relatively no leading. If its for SD, you wouldnt need many of them anyway.

-George
 
Have never seen a gas checked DEWC but at 1,000 fps I'm not sure it would be necessary. I know some are loading the .357 mag hard cast DEWC to much faster levels so I would think beyond 1,200 it would be a great idea.
 
Wadcutters, by design, fill a good portion of the case when loaded.

Powder needs room to work, and room is limited uner that wadcutter. For that reason, I doubt you'll find a wadcutter loaded to +p pressures.

And, they're designed for target work. Target shooting doesn't require high velocities.

All this said, wadcutters will out-penetrate many +p SD loads, even at standard pressure. They don't expand much, if at all, and higher velocities won't help that. They're designed to "cut a hole", which they do very well (therefore the name "wadcutter")v.

I load my own, and I've never seen a load listed for +p pressures with a wadcutter bullet. I also see no reason to attempt doing it, since there's little or nothing to gain by it.

Daryl
 
My father had semi-wad cutters loaded to what he calls

Minimum magnum loads for his S&W 38s. But this was done by a local guy not a factory.
 
A semi-wadcutter bullet would be a different critter than a wadcutter bullet. You would need to use a hard cast SWC. I say that due to the SWC's offered by Speer and Hornady are also swaged and soft. You still would be velocity limited using them due to leading problems.

Standing Wolf, [wink,wink, nod nod] At the time I bought the Python, it was the only cheap gun I could afford. [know what I mean] But that's a story for another thread.
 
My father had semi-wad cutters loaded to what he calls

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Minimum magnum loads for his S&W 38s. But this was done by a local guy not a factory.
Click to expand...

Semi-Wadcutters are loaded much like any other bullet; that is, they're usually seated to a "crimp-groove", with the nose of the bullet sticking out of the case a bit. This allows plenty of room for powder in the case under the bullet, and they can and are loaded much the same way, at to the same pressures as any other lead bullet.

Actual "wadcutters" are loaded so that the nose of the bullet is even with the top of the case. The "crimp" is made around the nose of the bullet. With the entire bullet sitting inside of the case, room for powder is limited.

Those who load their own ammo know that the deeper one seats a bullet, the more pressure you get from the same amount of powder. Powder needs room to work.

So, there's a big difference between the two when it comes to the practical pressures they can and should be loaded at.
 
I have a M-19 K-frame that's been retired from shooting full magnum loads. I've found the Berrys plated DEWC can be loaded fairly hot without leading, I'm probably in the +P or +P+ range. I use .357 cases and lightly crimp them with 1/8" or so of the bullet out of the case (better accuracy that way.) 1-1/4", 5 shots, 25 yards benched out of a 4" barrel. I don't see why you couldn't assemble some equal combination in .38 cases.
 
.38 Wadcutter question:

Thanks guys, great info here. Think I will try the 150 grain (Buffalo Bore) wadcutters that Jim Watson suggested, Thanks for the link Jim. Those wadcutters look like they would fill the bill on what I am looking for.
 
Consider a plated wad cutter. You can load Berry 148 gr. DEWC pretty hot. You can go about half way between lead and jacketed without concerns of stripping the plating. Of course, that assumes you hand load.
 
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