Question on Triple 7 Loose Powder

U

UtahHunting

New member
I was thinking of giving Triple 7 a try in my Knight inline. I have been using Pyrodex. I always use the loose powder and use 80 grains. If I switch to Triple 7 would I use 68 grains then? Am I figuring that right? Is that the equivalent of 80 grains of Pyrodex?
 
General rule, is about 10% less charge with 777 for a starting point, and work up your best load from there.
If you are using 80 grains of pyrodex, start with 72 grains of 777, and work your way up until you get the accuracy and load that you want.
 
The safe bet would be to drop the charge 10gr and work back up. - My Chrono testing has shone that with my rifle, this gives almost identical results to the 10gr more Pyro.

I will say that with my Knight USAK, 80gr of 777 and a 300gr sabot (almost any sabot) shoots like nobody's business.
 
My Thompson loves 100grn of loose 777 with a Hornady 250grn SST.

The best advise I can give you is do a wet swab between EVERY shot and pull out your breech plug while you are swabbing. 777 has a tendency to build up a crud ring around the breech plug and if you don't get it clean then it will start to affect your bullet seating. It is far easier to keep it from building up by removing the plug for each swab than it is to clean it after shooting all day.

Of course, in the field I would just reload and shoot.
 
From the Hodgdon's web site, Triple 7 Loading Notes:
All charges of Triple Seven or Pyrodex should be measured by VOLUME not weight. A simple, adjustable blackpowder measure is the correct tool for this job. All loads listed in this brochure are measured by VOLUME.

Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as blackpowder. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%. *See WARNING below.

Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder and weighs only about 70% as much as blackpowder. However, because Pyrodex yields more energy per pound than does blackpowder, the same volume of Pyrodex gives similar performance to blackpowder. Pyrodex loads given in this manual for muzzleloading guns are measured by volume, not weight.
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I just got back from the range. I ended up buying a pound of 777. I started with 70 grn and ended up back to 80 grn where it seems to shoot the best. I don't know if it was me or not, but the 777 seems to be more consistent at grouping the shots. The cleanup of the gun was noticeably easier.
 
While I miss the good ole stink of the real thing, I love Triple 7. Cleans up easy and I've shot as many as 30times in a session without swabbing the bore. My Lyman GPR piles a .535" roundball into tiny clusters at 70yds packed over 100gr Triple 7.
 
does it come in the pellets like pyro does?
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I don't recommend pellets to anybody who is concerned about accuracy. They are notoriously inconsistent and inconsistency in muzzleloading equals bigger groups.
 
Before I started shooting smokeless Savage, I noticed that when I used the 777 primers from winchester, that the crude ring at the bottom of my barrel, was a lot less noticeable. I would clean after every shot, with a spit patch ( or windex), then a dry patch, as stated before. I think the powder does cause a little of the crude ring problem, but I think that most of the crude ring comes from the primers, more than the powder.

I tried all the different primers, and they all made a crude ring, until I went to the 777 primers.
I agree with others about the inconsistency of pellets vs loose. I get a lot better groups shooting loose powder, although all shots would be huntable within 100 yards or so. I get 1 1/2" groups with loose, and pellets will produce about 3" to 4" groups at 100 yards.

Just my 2 cents
 
Utah, Is your knight a fairly modern Disc or Disc Extreme? If so you could go all the way up to 120 grains(volume) with the standard 250/300 grn sabot/bullet. If you want to really make that gun sing try 110-120 grns of the new Blackhorn 209 with a full strength primer. I may not need it all but I've been shooting 115-120 grns B209 under a 250 grn SST in my Knight.
 
What is the benefit of the Blackhorn 209?
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MUCH cleaner. It is the only stuff out there where you can truely shoot enough to get sighted in good without having to swab any until you get home.
 
Some Knight rifles have 209 breechplugs that aren't compatible with shooting Blackhorn 209, and some have drilled out their primer holes to be able to use it. There's a thread on another forum where someone is developing a replacement Knight breechplug so Blackhorn 209 can be used with the Knight Extremes and Elites.
There's another new pellet named IMR White Hots which is owned by Hodgdon that also makes 777.
It's cleaner and more potent than 777.
The White Hot Pellets are supposed to be like a top shelf 777. Some folks were skeptical and didn't like them at first but now more are reporting that they like them even better than 777.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/ST_whitehots_122008WO/index2.html

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,299.html

http://www.grafs.com/product/254152
 
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I think I'll consider the triple 7 BUT I still have a question. Okay, its more powerful than pyrodex and will push the projectile to a higher velocity. Can't you just use more Pyrodex and accomplish the same thing? As I understand it, the Triple7 is cleaner so that would be a plus. What about pressure, does the Triple 7 obtain higher velocities than Pyrodex with less or equal pressure?
 
IMO, you won't tell the difference. I've been shooting 777 loose since it came out in my MK85 and my Marlin MLS50. Same charge as Pyro--90 grs. Above 100 grs., it just leaves more unburnt residue in mine, so don't waste. -7-
 
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777 produces a higher pressure on a slightly faster rise time than Pyrodex or real black powder. You can achieve the same velocity as 777 by using 15% more by volume of Pyrodex (in theory - the actual amount would take a signifcant amount of testing and some serious statistical analysis). The rise time of the pressure curve will be slower but the effect on both muzzle velocity and energy will not be noticeable.
 
Thanks mykeal- so if I understand correctly- there isn't that much difference between the two- where I am coming from on this is some of the smokeless powders used in modern cartridge reloading- sometimes there is one powder that is simply better- that is higher velocity with less pressure. On the Pyrodex vs 777 the difference is less 777 is needed and hence less fouling- is that correct?
 
There's usually less fouling with 777, but there's the known phenomemon of a hard encrustation being formed in the breech using 777 pellets with the hotter standard #209 primer, at least in some guns.
The Pyrodex fouling isn't as hard as the encrusted 777 form of residue.
That's the reason why the slightly less hot Winchester 777 primers were developed, to help keep that hard encrustation from forming.
From most reports they do help to solve much of the problem. Loose 777 doesn't form as much encrustation to begin with but it does occur.
So in many cases 777 is cleaner.
But 777 pellets and larger 777 powder charges used with hot 209 primers can cause fouling issues in some guns more than others.
If used in lesser amounts in smaller caliber guns with #11 primers, then the 777 encrustation isn't an issue. Thus the conclusion that 777 is much cleaner.
Pyrodex RS is also dirtier than Pyrodex P.
Every powder has it's advantages and disadvantages.
 
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