question on carrying in hospitals in Texas

J

JBarL

Inactive
I have read some threads over the past months and been reading alot about hospitals. gun buster signs legal or not. I am going to put it out here. I am A CHL Instructor for Texas A NRA Instructor, and a Licensed FFL dealer. here is what I know about carrying in hospitals churches and so on.

Where may I NOT carry my handgun?

Handguns and other weapons cannot be carried at schools or on school buses, at polling places, in courts and court offices, at racetracks, at secured airport areas or within 1,000 feet of the premises of an execution on the day of execution.

The law also specifically prohibits handguns from businesses where alcohol is sold if 51% or more of their revenue is from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption.

From locations where high school, college or professional sporting events are taking place.

You may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings
if signs are posted prohibiting them.
(see Texas Penal Code § 30.06 requirements).

Businesses also may post signs prohibiting handguns on their premises based on criminal trespass laws. See Texas Penal Code § 46.035. (Judges, prosecuting attorneys, peace officers and parole officers should consult Texas Penal Code § 46.15 regarding exemptions from the “no-carry” rules of the Penal Code.)

Hope this clears things up
JBarL
 
JBarL:

From what I've read, those 30.06 signs are supposed to have letters 1" tall, yet 99% of the establishments I see who have them posted (gas stations, 7-11s, restaurants, etc., etc.) have them printed about half that size. Makes me wonder what the consequences of ignoring the sign would be. On one hand, they don't meet the legal requirement; on the other, the owner's intent to notify is clear.
 
To my knowledge if the business has NO 30.06 Signs posted but they have a gun buster sign then a CHL holder can carry at the business if the business does not display the 30.06 sign then legally you can carry at that business unless they say it verbally or post the PROPER SIGN.. Just because they post other gun signs on their business property if it doesnt have the Penal Code refernce then the sign mentioned cannot be enforced. so if you go to a hospital that has a sign with a gun with a slash through it only then legally you can carry your Concealed into that place.
JBarL
 
dev_null said:
From what I've read, those 30.06 signs are supposed to have letters 1" tall, yet 99% of the establishments I see who have them posted (gas stations, 7-11s, restaurants, etc., etc.) have them printed about half that size. Makes me wonder what the consequences of ignoring the sign would be.
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Every 30.06 sign I've seen met the requirements of the statute to the letter. However, the legislature was fairly specific as to what requirements had to be met in order to qualify as written notice to CHL holders and Texas courts are often very literal in their interpretation of statute.

From a risk-avoidance perspective, if I saw a 30.06 sign with 0.5" lettering, I'd treat it the same as a valid sign. That way I don't have to risk a conviction for unlawful carry of a concealed weapon (and lose my CHL for several years) on an individual judge's interpretation of whether I had valid written notice from a sign that didn't meet statutory requirements perfectly.
 
I don't think we have a case of someone busted for ignoring a noncompliant 30.06 sign.

If you point out the sign is noncompliant - and they say they don't want guns, then you are it and can't carry.

As far as not going there - Jeff might have been able to operate on his own appendix or refuse to visit a dying friend. Let's be real.
 
Every 30.06 sign I've seen met the requirements of the statute to the letter.
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Same here, but I'll add that most of the 30.06 signs I've seen have been at major Dallas-area hospitals! The hospitals' lawyers seem to have done a better job of paying attention to the statute than anyone else. :)

Oddly, most of the hospitals I've visited in the outlying areas don't have signs, or just have the generic circle-and-slash "Gunbuster" stickers.

FWIW I've found that my primary "Can I Carry?" problem has been the 51% signs; several prominent Dallas-area live music venues have them posted, but they're very hard to see amongst all the posters advertising upcoming touring acts. :rolleyes:
 
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[I'm with Jeff Cooper on this issue: I don't go to any of those places.]

I guess Cooper never flew commercially after 9/11. Maybe he passed before that time.
Jerry
 
My comment referencing Jeff Cooper is from when someone asked him what he would pick for a concealed carry pistol to carry in bars and the like. His answer was that he didn't go in places like that. Maybe his doctor made house calls.
 
Yes Signs have to say 30.06 with the penal code reference and the letters has to be 1 inch letters and it has to be contrasting and it has to be posted in a place so everyone can see it entering that business. I been reading about this very topic on many forums and I just had to give my input on it. I am refering to the no guns allowed signs the State of Texas says in its legislation on laws that if the sign is not a 30.06 sign then that sign cannot be enforced, If a owner of a business wants that business to be a " gun free zone" then they have to post the PROPER sign No Guns Allowed or A sign with a gun in it with a slash through it Does not and will not be a legal sign to stop a CHL holder from carrying. My input on this folks is this Concealed means out of veiw from others or carrying with the intent to hide from veiw. which is if its concealed WHO is going to know you are armed? unless you just go around advertising I got a gun.... if thats the case then you dont need a CHL just my opinion... now I can go straight to DPS website and Copy and paste the laws if needed but How many lawyers are in here to decifer that wording cause I aint one thats fer sure...
JBarL
 
Okay, just so I'm clear, and so I can be sure I'm not putting words in your mouth, JBarL, are you, a certified CHL trainer, suggesting that it's fine if people carry illegally, because no one will be the wiser? Because that's what it sounds like.

I'm no lawyer, nor a cop, nor an NRA instructor, but that just doesn't sound like good advice to me. But maybe I'm misunderstanding you, which is why I'm asking.
 
Dev Null
I am not saying that people should break the law. to answer your question yes I am a CHL Instructor . I am just putting this out cause there was so much debate on the laws in Texas and hospitals carrying concealed in that building. I am just saying what is written on the laws and what I was told by DPS when I went through the Instructor Course. DPS said that with the new law changes came into effect that if a building does not have a 30.06 sign on the outer door where patrons can see it or they have no guns allowed sign posted that by State Staute they could not enforce the law. Now I was merly trying to clear that matter up If I let on to say to someone break the law that was not my intentions. to be precise I will copy and paste what is on DPS website. So it will be very clear.

From DPS Website concealed handgun FAQ #50

Handguns and other weapons cannot be carried at schools or on school buses, at polling places, in courts and court offices, at race¬tracks, at secured airport areas, or within 1,000 feet of the premises of a facility carrying out an execution on the day of an execution. The law also specifically prohibits handguns from businesses where alcohol is sold, if more than half of their revenue is from the sale of alcohol for on-premises consumption. Additionally, weapons are prohibited on locations where high school, college or professional sporting events are taking place. Furthermore, you may not carry handguns in hospitals or nursing homes, amusement parks, places of worship or at government meetings, if signs are posted prohibiting them. Businesses also may post signs prohibiting handguns on their premises based on criminal trespass laws.

Now with that said Notice " If signs are posted" Like I said I am not a lawyer either and I can not decipher all the legal garb either. But I just tell my students to look for 3 signs If its a 30.06 Sign posted DO NOT CARRY if its is a sign that has a big red 51% on it DO NOT CARRY, Or GUN FREE ZONE DO NOT CARRY other places your good to go.
I hope I made it a little better to understand I get so wrapped up my mind goes 90 mph but my fingers on keyboard goes 3mph lol. kinda like the toss up of having a gun in your vehicle on school property as long as you do not enter the building you are good to go. the gun can be in your vehicle on school property not on your person inside the building. and futhermore the church I go to I think everyone carries there its a cowboy church and Preacher advocates to carry lol.
 
Dev,
Also I was doing some more digging this was code was taken from SB 60 (senate bill 60)
if a hospital has a no guns allowed sign with Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code,written under then that one is off limits notice this bill was written in 1995 right when the CHL program was taking place and being enacted on. at that particular time all government buildings, hospitals, schools, gambling places and bars were all off limits to CHL holders carrying. Now with the new laws that have changed Some Schools you can actually carry in. Now with the castle Doctrine in place it states everyone has right to defend themselves in their work place, cars, home with the No Duty to retreat. so some places you can carry now. Did you know you can carry concealed in the State capitol? only place off limits is where the house or senate are at. all other places you can carry there. Me personally I would make darn sure you are legal regardless of the signs. cause to this day the sign mess has not got straightend out yet. thats why I stress very much 30.06 51% and gun free zones. take care hope you had a great new year look forward to chatting more with ya'll
JBarL
 
I have seen state government offices that have signs posted that are not 30.06 compliant. These are located in the Houston-Galveston area. I'm not sure who you can complain to about non-compliant signage.
 
I have seen state government offices that have signs posted that are not 30.06 compliant.
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You might look closely at the signs. Usually they refer to Sec. 30.05 rather than Sec. 30.06. That is just the general criminal trespass statute. Those are fairly common on government buildings; but they are not written notice under Section 30.06 to CHL holders.
 
at that particular time all government buildings, hospitals, schools, gambling places and bars were all off limits to CHL holders carrying. Now with the new laws that have changed Some Schools you can actually carry in.
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(emphasis mine)

JBarL,

I'm not aware of any new TX law that allows civilian CCW inside an actual school building without explicit permission. AFAIK the latest round of "campus carry" legislation withered on the vine during the 2011 legislative session, IIRC for the 3rd consecutive time. :(

Could you provide more details?

I believe that the parking lot storage provision- which DID pass- extends to school employees in school parking lots, but this is different than a provision allowing someone to "actually carry in" a school.
You might look closely at the signs. Usually they refer to Sec. 30.05 rather than Sec. 30.06. That is just the general criminal trespass statute.
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+1; there's such a sign at a municipal building in eastern DFW, but upon reading it, I quickly realized that it did NOT actually say anything about CHL holders at all. It only addressed "unlicensed individuals" like the signs at TX liquor stores.
 
CarguyChris

There is one School in North Texas Not sure of the name right off hand that was trying to get approved for its staff with a CHL to carry in And if I am not mistaking it did pass. Let me see if I can dig up the name for you. If I find it I will post here, This would be a major step in the right direction and hope others will pick up on their Idea. I believe it was a public school that passed it I know that some Community colleges allow CHL's on their property. But I will try to get a list of them for you please bear with me cause I am at work.
 
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