Question on 45 ACP 200 Grain SWC

A

Andrew DG

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I have been loading 200 grain lead semi wad cutters for my 1911 and I have come up with a question. It seems like all of these rounds rip the paper of the target and I know that the bullet is capable of punching a nice round hole. So my question is Am I doing something wrong? I suppose a follow up question would be Even if I am not necessarily doing something wrong, is there something I could change in order to get these bullets to punch circular holes in the paper rather than rip it? My theory at the moment is that the bullets are simply not going fast enough, but rather than guess and check I thought I would put this question out there for those of you with more experience than myself.

I guess the only reason this is important to me is because I think it is cool when it looks like you have gone over your target with a hole punch, but that should be reason enough.

Here are the details, I don't know what is pertinent. I am loading these bullets: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/465521/oregon-trail-laser-cast-bullets-45-caliber-452-diameter-200-grain-lead-semi-wadcutter-box-of-500 I am loading them with 4 grains of Bullseye. The OAL is 1.227 inches and the crimp is set to .4725 inches. I appreciate any insight you all can offer.
 
Sounds like a paper problem. Some paper tends to tear while some cut more cleanly. You can try taping it tightly to a cardboard backer. Tension on the paper and support should help.
 
I just started using the Lee 200gr SWC last year and was disappointed to find it didn't cut clean holes like you mentioned.

Oh well.
 
As mentioned above, it's probably the paper. NRA "Official" targets tend to break into a nice round hole. Other than "Official" targets tend to tear. Also, the target needs to be up against the backer, tight and smooth.
 
That's correct. Official targets are made of paper that cuts cleanly. With standard typing paper you need a firm backer and pretty good velocity to get clean holes. It is one of my frustrations that I haven't found target tagboard or the thinner target center paper available in 8.5×11 or 11×17 for photocopier duplication. Construction paper seems to be as close as I can get, but it's all 9×11 or 12×18. Until you get to 24×36, it's not a standard U.S. printer size.
 
Agree, real target paper is made to punch cleanly.
Some of the old timers would even lightly bake their targets to make the paper even more brittle for a neat hole.

Printer paper smoothly taped or stapled to a stiff cardboard backer will do ok for most shooting.

Regulation rifle targets are pasted to a very heavy cardboard backer.
 
Yep! Those of us who've been on the first relay of the day in the pits at Camp Perry remember the wheat paste bushes and tubs and sticking the targets to their backers. The water in the wheat paste softens the target paper a bit, too.

I'd forgotten about the oven bake trick. If you have a greenhouse, you could probably spread out and age the paper in sunlight until it starts to yellow, too.

With wheat paste, ordinary poster board isn't a bad backer, but a little expensive compared to salvaging the sides of cardboard boxes, as I think most of us do.
 
4 grains of Bullseye is a tick below minimum, but not enough to matter. 4.1 is minimum. 4.6 max. .1 isn't going to make much difference. You work the load up or just pick it?
I really think you're worrying about something that isn't terribly critical. It's where the holes are that matters. Let the scorers worry about the rest.
"...first relay of the day in the pits..." End up sneezing like mad with my eyes watering like something really bad had happened. Wasn't at Perry though. CF range just after the grass had been cut. Dristan is your friend. snicker.
 
4 grains was the minimum according to the book I was using. I have tried 4.2 with no noticeable difference. Last night I loaded up 1 magazine worth at 4.4 grains and I will see if that makes any difference. Even if it does, I don't know that the extra wear on my gun would be worth it. It sounds like a menial enough issue that I am just going to have to be at peace with the fact that the holes in my target aren't going to look as neat as I would like. Thank you all for the insight.
 
I think it is cool when it looks like you have gone over your target with a hole punch.
Click to expand...

I know. It's cool. It's oddly important to me too.

And for me, there's also a more practical reason: My shooting glasses have a little bit of prescription in them so I can see my front sight sharp enough to take a good aim. The trade-off is that downrange, everything is just a bit blurry. The nice sharp hole makes it easier for me to see my impact point. This is especially true in competition (I shoot revolver with full wadcutters in competition).

Getting back to your issue: I think it's already been covered here. I will add that I use "official" targets, made of thick paper, and they're stapled to a cardboard backing. That helps, it seems.
 
You seam to have it covered. Although I would like to add I have noticed the official paper targets tend to want to crack or become brittle with age when I store them in my basement that is humid in the summer and very dry in the winter. Although I can't comment on the clean cut holes. Since I use FMJ in my 45 ACP that also tares those scuffed edged holes.
 
Cardstock

Been printing my own targets for years on 8.5"x11" cardstock. SWC make nice clean holes. Cardstock is cheap, $8-$10 for 250 sheets, and readily available. The only problem I've had with white cardstock occurs when scanning the targets for analysis using On Target software. White platen on scanner will "wash out" the holes. Have to put a dark colored paper behind the target to give contrast and make the holes stand out.
 
Kruger makes a special paper that cuts a clean hole, however....

http://www.kruger-us-targets.com/targets/nra-official-competition-targets.html

When Kruger targets were used as Small Bore Targets at Camp Perry, they tore like tissue paper. Bullets cut a nice clean hole but the things just ripped putting them into the frames and if the wind caught your target, as you walked to your frame, it ripped. I figured out the best way to install my 100 yard targets was to take the target frame out of the ground, lay it flat on the earth, and clip the target on the front of the frame. You cannot control the 4 foot target hanging in the air and just a tiny wind blow was enough to rip a loose end. After clipping the target to the frame, I picked up the frame/target, inserted it back into the holes, and used as many paperclip per side as there was real estate. If it ripped I was hoping I had enough paper clips to keep it from totally tearing apart.

These same targets were used in 3P and it was wet and rainy. Shooters told of these Kruger targets being blown out of the frame when wet. For Small Bore prone, these targets lasted one day, because of all the delays involved in targets being ripped and shooters having to run back to the line to get more targets. What was issued next were targets from National Target Company. http://www.nationaltarget.com/ I talked to National after the match and found they had a special paper they used only for targets used in the National Matches. I think the paper was heavier but they would not tell me much as it was their secret.
 
Here are the details, I don't know what is pertinent. I am loading these bullets: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/465...ter-box-of-500 I am loading them with 4 grains of Bullseye. The OAL is 1.227 inches and the crimp is set to .4725 inches. I appreciate any insight you all can offer.
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Your bullet looks exactly like the H&G 68 LSWC and it still is a standard in Bullseye pistol. Billions if not trillions of this round have been fired with 4.0 grains of Bullseye. The standard deviations I get with this load are just unbelievably low for pistol ammunition. Rifle ammunition can be this good, but this is rare for pistol ammunition. This is my 50 yard load and it will hold the ten ring with my pistol, I am certain, but I can't prove it will hold all shots within four inches at 50 yards as I am still working towards the goal of keeping all shots on the target center. Try Bullseye pistol and find out just how bad of a pistol shot you really are! It is impossible.

The stock spring for a Les Baer Wadcutter is 13 pounds. My Wadcutter has the optical sight attached to the slide and Les Baer does not recommend firing bullets greater than 200 grains in these pistols.

This year I tested the Xtreme Plated version of the H&G 68, the pistol would only function reliably with 4.0 grains Bullseye.

Code: 
[SIZE="4"]200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6/20/2005 WLP Brass mixed cases 
23-Mar-16	T = 69 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	

oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =723.3		 		
Std Dev =9.48		 		 
ES =	28.65		 		 
High = 741.6				 
Low =712.9				 
N =	10				 
					
					
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases 
8-Jun-15	T = 91 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	

oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =742.9		 		
Std Dev =9.89		 		 
ES =	33.19		 		 
High = 760.6				 
Low =727.5				 
N =	20				 
					
 accurate					
					
					
					
200 Xtreme Plated SWC 3.7 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases 
23-Mar-16	T = 72 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	

oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =651.7		 		
Std Dev =11.66		 		 
ES =	40.03		 		 
High = 676.9				 
Low =636.9				 
N =	14				 
					
all ejected, slide failed to lock back once			
					
					
200 Xtreme Plated SWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases 
23-Mar-16	T = 72 °F	OAL 1.250"	Taper Crimp 0.469"	

oiled cases 					
					
Ave Vel =686.8		 		
Std Dev =26.32		 		 
ES =	91.37		 		 
High = 730.4				 
Low =639.1				 
N =	14				 
					
accurate, functioned and slide locked back[/SIZE]
 
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