Question,"Loose", oversize R-P .44mag cases?

B

bamaranger

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While working up some .44mag loads, I discovered an issue with R-P cases in my brass assortment. After polishing, then sizing the cases, and setting the expander die up properly for minimal belling case of case mouths, I discovered that every R-P case would accept a .429" jacketed Speer bullet with just thumb pressure. By accept, I mean that the bullet could then be seated to normal C.O.A.L. with thumb pressure ONLY, no use of the press. As this was a mixed batch of cases, I could conduct the same test with other cases prepped and sized at the same time and die settings. No other headstamp, and there was a wide variety of mixed cases, displayed this problem. I sorted all cases by headstamp, set the R-P's aside, and am completing my load project with W_W brass and a handful Shooting Stars to finish the batch.

I cannot put a number to how many times any of these cases have been fired and reloaded, but it would be very varied. Some were once fired range pick-ups, others had been reloaded multiple times, others I just could not say. Additionally, aside from the pick-ups, all would have been fired in either my Ruger carbines, or a 629 Mtn that I am fortunate enough to own. I have never worked up a super hot load using just the R-P's, that would explain what appears to be this "tired" brass. But ONLY the R-P cases displayed a problem. All others, despite age or origin, appear to take the .429" jacketed slug snugly, without issue. I figure the R-P's will take a .430"lead slug snugly, and provided the primer pockets are tight, will load them with midrange lead loads.

But the sloppy .429" jacketed bullets have me wondering what is going on?
 
With a wide assortment of brass across the several calibers I reload, I occasionally find a few cases with next to no neck tension. And yes, it is often brand-specific and the problem becomes apparent after a couple of reloads.

I discard any cases with loose neck tension or primer pockets.
 
They are probably work hardened and spring back too much after resizing. You could try annealing the top half of the cases, but I just toss 'em when they won't provide sufficient bullet pull. You could also set them aside and just use them with .430-.431" bullets.
 
black mamba said:
They are probably work hardened and spring back too much after resizing. You could try annealing the top half of the cases, but I just toss 'em when they won't provide sufficient bullet pull. You could also set them aside and just use them with .430-.431" bullets.
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Shooting nothing but hardcast is the only reason I don't have issues with old brass. I reload them till they split. I never anneal 44mag.
 
Bamaranger said:
While working up some .44mag loads, I discovered an issue with R-P cases in my brass assortment. After polishing, then sizing the cases, and setting the expander die up properly for the minimal belling case of case mouths, I discovered that every R-P case would accept a .429" jacketed Speer bullet with just thumb pressure.
Click to expand...

This is a really common problem with R-P handgun brass. It is designed with thinner necks than most use, and it work-hardens to get so springy many standard dies just can't size it down far enough to hang onto a bullet anymore. I got so annoyed with that in 45 Auto in the 1980s that I stopped even picking R-P up, considering it a nuisance.

When I finally got a Dillon press about 1990, that stopped being an issue. Apparently Dillon makes its sizing dies on the narrow side, so R-P works in it. You could get a Dillon die, or you could toss the brass and stick to Winchester, Starline, or any other more normally thick brass.

Never had a problem with R-P 308 Win or 30-06 brass. This just seems to be an issue with some of their pistol and revolver brass.
 
Agree that they might be usable with cast at .430-432".

I have had more funny RP brass than any other. Thick .44-40, thin .45 ACP, short life plated .38.
 
I had that problem with certain off brand of 45 acp cases. What I did was after running the cases through my carbide die, I would then lube the upper half of the case and run it through a 45 acp Lyman steel die. This die would further size the case even more. I had no issues after I did that. But I only had a few cases like that, usually no more than 20 to 30 cases out of several hundred I was reloading. I don't remember the brass designation, but I don't believe it was commercial brass. My brass was usually mixed brands, as most was range pickup.
 
"...thumb pressure ONLY..." You can probably do that with any straight walled case and a jacketed bullet. Holding the bullet in place is what crimping does.
"..."tired" brass..." Gets brittle and cracks. It doesn't get thinner.
"...measure the case wall thickness..." A Vernier will do that.
"...short life plated .38..." Have a big pile of plated .38 and .357. Never had any issues the normal cracking of the brass and pitching it didn't fix. snicker.
 
T. O'Heir said:
"...measure the case wall thickness..." A Vernier will do that.
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Not accurately. Even the "knife" edges on a typical caliper aren't a true knife edge, they have a small flat. On mine, that flat measures approximately .75mm. You can't accurately measure a curved surface with a caliper that has a flat face -- that's why they make tubing micrometers, and why I asked if the OP has one.
 
Rem pistol brass loses what little elasticity that it has, after being fired once. Combined with it usually being thinner, it has difficulty gripping onto some jacketed bullets. Lee use to make special order undersize cases inexpensively, if you want to use rem brass for situation where normal sizing die does not produce enough "grip". Or try not using mouth expander that expands down into case past mouth bevel.

Have found this more of a problem in 45 acp. In 9mm the rem cases were thicker than many others. In 44 mag have no problem using them with .430 or above bullets (measured, not listed as).

In all calibers am segregating the rem brass out and adjusting for their specific use.
 
I had the same problem with Rem .45 brass, in my case it was a Lee die that didn't size the case down far enough. No problem with RCBS and Dillon dies.
 
i make sure loaded cartridges have a coke bottle appearance. especially .429 bullets.

my complaint about RP brass is lack of primer pocket support. winchester primers crack in RP brass. leaving a collection of pits in your recoil plate.
 
In my 45 Colt and 44 Mag, RP cases have the shortest life, compared to my other stock of WW and Starline. I stopped shooting jacketed bullets long ago and the 44 gets .430 in 255 SWC persuasion.
 
understood

OK, appears others have verified my suspicion that R-P (pistol) brass has some issues. I've set them aside, fate undetermined, they certainly will not get any jacketed or full house ammo. From a mixed batch of 200+ cases, I ended up with 40+ R-P's, and EVERY one was slack.

Once again the Forum comes through......thanks all.
 
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