My question is this. Does your GP-100 extract 357 fired rounds completely clear of the cylinder or do you have to occasionally pluck the fired cases out by hand? This is a design fault in the S&W 686 revolvers as you have to many times pluck out 357 cases because the extractor rod is not long enough to clear the cylinder of the longer 357 case length. This is a definite hindrance to anyone wanting to use a speed loader for fast reloading. Hopefully S&W will wake up and correct this design flaw in the future.
Question for Ruger GP-100 owners
- Thread starter Woodyed
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Waspinator
New member
That's why you should whack the ejector rod with force. Don't baby it. point the barrel up and whack that rod.. between the force you applied and gravity, they should come out. You should be doing this, especially if you training for speed loading.
Humans are people of habit. If you baby the rod and try to be all neat and tidy at the range, you might do the same when you find yourself in a situation. An ex-LEO I know told me that he went to the aftermath of a police involved shootout. The officer was shot dead... he was found with spent brass in his hand. He was reloading and took his eyes off the suspect to focus on his reload. He was so self-trained to eject his brass into his hand to be neat and tidy at the range, that under stress he fell back into that mode.
Something to think about.
Humans are people of habit. If you baby the rod and try to be all neat and tidy at the range, you might do the same when you find yourself in a situation. An ex-LEO I know told me that he went to the aftermath of a police involved shootout. The officer was shot dead... he was found with spent brass in his hand. He was reloading and took his eyes off the suspect to focus on his reload. He was so self-trained to eject his brass into his hand to be neat and tidy at the range, that under stress he fell back into that mode.
Something to think about.
Been there- done this
I have whacked the ejector rod hard and I've still had 357 cases that had to be plucked out. Long experience with S&W revolvers have taught me that the "whacking the extractor rod" procedure some of the time did work. I've got M27's, M28's, and M17's that most of the time require the whacking procedure to expel the cases. My complaint is, why should this be necessary at all when the extractor rod could be made just a little longer to expel the cases?
I have whacked the ejector rod hard and I've still had 357 cases that had to be plucked out. Long experience with S&W revolvers have taught me that the "whacking the extractor rod" procedure some of the time did work. I've got M27's, M28's, and M17's that most of the time require the whacking procedure to expel the cases. My complaint is, why should this be necessary at all when the extractor rod could be made just a little longer to expel the cases?
Post #2; Newhall CA...
Post #2 reminds me of the Newhall CA incident. A group of CHP troopers(CA Highway Patrol) were in a lethal force event & a few were murdered.
A crime scene investigation showed a few of the state troopers had spent cases in their uniform pant pockets.
The SOP of the CA Highway Patrol re-quals at the time was for the sworn members to police up the spent .38/.357 cases as they shot them on the gun ranges.
Muscle memory & repetition led many of the troopers to shoot their duty revolvers that way.
Armed professionals & concealed license holders need to learn how to shoot tactically. Spent revolver cases or empty pistol magazines are not going to save you in a critical incident. If you throw them on the ground or they fall out of the way, so be it. Deal with the threats first!
Target or range shooting with a safe queen or a collectors item is not like training with a carry pistol/sidearm.
Clyde
Post #2 reminds me of the Newhall CA incident. A group of CHP troopers(CA Highway Patrol) were in a lethal force event & a few were murdered.
A crime scene investigation showed a few of the state troopers had spent cases in their uniform pant pockets.
The SOP of the CA Highway Patrol re-quals at the time was for the sworn members to police up the spent .38/.357 cases as they shot them on the gun ranges.
Muscle memory & repetition led many of the troopers to shoot their duty revolvers that way.
Armed professionals & concealed license holders need to learn how to shoot tactically. Spent revolver cases or empty pistol magazines are not going to save you in a critical incident. If you throw them on the ground or they fall out of the way, so be it. Deal with the threats first!
Target or range shooting with a safe queen or a collectors item is not like training with a carry pistol/sidearm.
Clyde
Learn the Mas Ayoob technique. I like it the best because I find it to be the most reliable. I have yet to have to pick out brass from the cylinder and I just went through a two day class using that technique with the GP100.
Ayoob addresses your concerns with full explanations in this video:
http://youtu.be/oXUwI_d8JlA
Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch offers a different reload in this short video:
http://americanhandgunner.com/video-defensive-revolver/
Ayoob addresses your concerns with full explanations in this video:
http://youtu.be/oXUwI_d8JlA
Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch offers a different reload in this short video:
http://americanhandgunner.com/video-defensive-revolver/
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It is not s design "flaw" in any gun, it's simply a design "feature".
If you turn the muzzle straight up & PUNCH the rod straight down with your other hand, you shouldn't get any brass hanging up.
If you just thumb the rod, you occasionally will.
This was taught to LE well over 30 years ago, and it does work.
The gunmakers are not going to "fix" what really isn't a problem if you just learn to operate your gun correctly.
I can dump a cylinder & reload with a speedloader much faster than I can type this sentence, and I'm rustyer'n hell.
I use a slightly different technique in handling the gun, but with the same muzzle-up rod punch, and if I put enough energy into that rod, out they come.
Denis
If you turn the muzzle straight up & PUNCH the rod straight down with your other hand, you shouldn't get any brass hanging up.
If you just thumb the rod, you occasionally will.
This was taught to LE well over 30 years ago, and it does work.
The gunmakers are not going to "fix" what really isn't a problem if you just learn to operate your gun correctly.
I can dump a cylinder & reload with a speedloader much faster than I can type this sentence, and I'm rustyer'n hell.
I use a slightly different technique in handling the gun, but with the same muzzle-up rod punch, and if I put enough energy into that rod, out they come.
Denis
Yes, keeping those chambers clean helps a bunch.
If you just thumb the rod, you occasionally will get cases hung up if you don't get in the habit of bottoming the ejector rod out with authority. One needs to practice their reloads a bunch at home to instill that habit, though, and it's best to practice by preloading the chambers with empty & dirty (i.e. not cleaned & resized) .357mag cases.
I'm a thumb guy and have never been a fan of whacking the ejector rod with your hand to eject. For one thing, that hand can be already going for the speedloader, but mainly because you can really hurt your hand if one or more of the cases turns out to be particularly sluggish. It's not (entirely) a matter of being a wuss - but more that the quality of your shooting's really gonna deteriorate with a hurt hand. And after the shooting's done, I've now got an injured hand. I'm getting too old for that.
DPris said:
If you just thumb the rod, you occasionally will get cases hung up if you don't get in the habit of bottoming the ejector rod out with authority. One needs to practice their reloads a bunch at home to instill that habit, though, and it's best to practice by preloading the chambers with empty & dirty (i.e. not cleaned & resized) .357mag cases.
I'm a thumb guy and have never been a fan of whacking the ejector rod with your hand to eject. For one thing, that hand can be already going for the speedloader, but mainly because you can really hurt your hand if one or more of the cases turns out to be particularly sluggish. It's not (entirely) a matter of being a wuss - but more that the quality of your shooting's really gonna deteriorate with a hurt hand. And after the shooting's done, I've now got an injured hand. I'm getting too old for that.
Going back through an LE career that started with revolvers in the 70s, I've never injured my hand in punching that brass out.
Doesn't matter what my off-hand COULD be doing (going for a speedloader, waving for time out, dialing up a pizza shop on the cellphone, etc.), ejection is top priority & I make very sure it happens fully before I get anywhere near my speedloader.
If your thumb isn't enough to achieve full ejection & you have to fumble to get one or more rounds out with your loader sitting there all dressed up in your other hand waiting for empty brass to get out of the way, you haven't gained anything.
Work out any system you want, but punching empties out is the most reliable way to go, and after that whichever method you use to re-charge is secondary.
I don't use the conventionally-taught hold in punching the rod, actually keep the gun in my right hand instead of my left while I do it, but it's still a muzzle-up/punch-down method.
Much more energy hits that rod from the palm of my hand than I could ever achieve with a thumb.
Denis
Doesn't matter what my off-hand COULD be doing (going for a speedloader, waving for time out, dialing up a pizza shop on the cellphone, etc.), ejection is top priority & I make very sure it happens fully before I get anywhere near my speedloader.
If your thumb isn't enough to achieve full ejection & you have to fumble to get one or more rounds out with your loader sitting there all dressed up in your other hand waiting for empty brass to get out of the way, you haven't gained anything.
Work out any system you want, but punching empties out is the most reliable way to go, and after that whichever method you use to re-charge is secondary.
I don't use the conventionally-taught hold in punching the rod, actually keep the gun in my right hand instead of my left while I do it, but it's still a muzzle-up/punch-down method.
Much more energy hits that rod from the palm of my hand than I could ever achieve with a thumb.
Denis
DPris said:
I agree - and if punching the ejector is the only way a shooter finds they get an efficient ejection, by all means they ought to employ it.
I personally don't generally have problems using my thumb, and have seen blood drawn at matches by a punching shooter, so I prefer the FBI Reload, where that hand is used to multi-task to my speedloader. To each their own, though, so long as you spend as little time reloading as possible.
For those of you who carry a revolver and speedloader, which hand do you hold the speedloader in? I'm a righty and carried a revolver as a duty gun before switching to a semi. The speedloader case was worn on the right hand side, in front of the holster. When you were empty, you opened the cylinder and switched the gun to your left hand, ejecting the brass with your left thumb as you pointed the revolver upwards. We would wrap our two middle fingers around the cylinder to prevent it from spinning as we loaded the gun with our right hand. I have tried to use a speedloader with my left hand but it doesn't feel natural.
Full disclosure: I have never shot PPC. Never been a cop and was a kid when I watched a lot of cops shooting it.
Seems to me that when they were using the HKS speedloaders and you need to keep the cylinder from turning slightly to assist you in deploying and unlocking the HKS to drop the rounds, a right handed shooter would discharge the revolver in his right hand, use his right thumb to unlock the cylinder, take his left hand and put two or three fingers through the cylinder opening in the frame, turn the revolver muzzle-up and use the left thumb to eject the brass. At that point, the right hand would deploy the HKS speedloader while the left hand held the revolver AND held the cylinder from turning. The cylinder must not turn if you wish to unlock the HKS speedloader.
When the spring loaded Safariland speedloader hit the scene, shooters changed their methods. For the Safariland to work properly, the cylinder should spin freely and the speedloader is simply pointed to the cylinder and the button pushed and the rounds are "flung" in to the cylinder. IIRC, shooters deployed the Safariland with their left hand.
Never having owned these, I never developed a method for using them. But I wonder if cops of the day ever carried these Safariland speedloaders? They are much taller/bulkier than the shorter HKS speedloaders. In fact, it begs the question... were PPC shooting cops practicing skills they would NOT replicate while on duty? Perhaps... but by the time I watching them shoot, they were shooting PPC revolvers on the weekend and carrying crunchentickers & wondernines on duty anyway.
Ahhh, the warm memories of my youth.
Seems to me that when they were using the HKS speedloaders and you need to keep the cylinder from turning slightly to assist you in deploying and unlocking the HKS to drop the rounds, a right handed shooter would discharge the revolver in his right hand, use his right thumb to unlock the cylinder, take his left hand and put two or three fingers through the cylinder opening in the frame, turn the revolver muzzle-up and use the left thumb to eject the brass. At that point, the right hand would deploy the HKS speedloader while the left hand held the revolver AND held the cylinder from turning. The cylinder must not turn if you wish to unlock the HKS speedloader.
When the spring loaded Safariland speedloader hit the scene, shooters changed their methods. For the Safariland to work properly, the cylinder should spin freely and the speedloader is simply pointed to the cylinder and the button pushed and the rounds are "flung" in to the cylinder. IIRC, shooters deployed the Safariland with their left hand.
Never having owned these, I never developed a method for using them. But I wonder if cops of the day ever carried these Safariland speedloaders? They are much taller/bulkier than the shorter HKS speedloaders. In fact, it begs the question... were PPC shooting cops practicing skills they would NOT replicate while on duty? Perhaps... but by the time I watching them shoot, they were shooting PPC revolvers on the weekend and carrying crunchentickers & wondernines on duty anyway.
Ahhh, the warm memories of my youth.
I started using HKS waaaay back then.
They may not be quite as effective as the others, but they take up less space & I've never had one fail to work.
For me, I hold the revolver in the right hand for ejection with my thumb locking the cylinder in place, muzzle straight up.
For loading, I switch the gun to the left hand, lock the cylinder with my left thumb, keep my fingers outside the cylinder window, and load with the right hand, muzzle angled down, but not straight down.
I am not saying it's THE way, just MY way.
I get better control & better angles all the way through the cycle.
Denis
They may not be quite as effective as the others, but they take up less space & I've never had one fail to work.
For me, I hold the revolver in the right hand for ejection with my thumb locking the cylinder in place, muzzle straight up.
For loading, I switch the gun to the left hand, lock the cylinder with my left thumb, keep my fingers outside the cylinder window, and load with the right hand, muzzle angled down, but not straight down.
I am not saying it's THE way, just MY way.
I get better control & better angles all the way through the cycle.
Denis
Homer, the above video link to Ayoob's method shows the method that works best for me. I am right-handed and trying to use the left hand to do the "dextrous" loading movement doesn't work for me. Sounds like it doesn't work well for you either.
Ayoob shows both the method for both the left handed and the right handed shooters.
Bart Noir
Ayoob shows both the method for both the left handed and the right handed shooters.
Bart Noir