question for former and current military snipers

R

Redworm

Moderator
I don't know if this qualifies for this forum but I wasn't sure where else to ask. I just saw a recruiting commercial for the Army Special Forces. They showed a scout/sniper team watching enemy movements and noted that they'd been at it for over a week. What I wonder is are snipers expected to literally not move for days at a time? Would that even be possible? Even taking in the least amount of water possible eventually you'd have to water the plants, right? How much strain does lying prone for hours on end put on the spine? :confused:
 
Oh, it happens. Not sure how many were on the team in the commercial, but it happens.
...uh, by the way, I am not or never have been a sniper, sorry, I didn't take in the Title of the thread.
 
I am no sniper,

But all the literature I have read from the US Army and Marine Corps states that the team may be in place for many days. The legnth of the mission usually determines the type of concealment used. For longer missions, usually days, the US Army guides even talk about the team building a small concealed bunker overlooking the target area.
 
I am no sniper, (unless you count paintball!:D )
So I will not answer the question directed to snipers.:eek:
 
I was also not a sniper, but I think its mostly the SF guys that would be sitting around for days in one spot without moving, just out of practicality.
 
I always get a kick out of all the banter about what SF/SEALs/nameit do (as if they are the standard by which the profession of arms is set). A typical Marine STA team may be in place for days on end. A SWAT sniper will do the same (if req'd).
As a matter of fact, your typical line company grunt has killed more terrorists and lives through more crap than his specops brethren. Why? B/C the specops dudes live in the secure facilities, playing xbox, lifting and waiting for the word. Go out, do the hit, back for chow. The grunts have to live outside of the wire, rarely get any of the fire support/sigint/humint/transpo that the specops bubbas get, and do it for much less $$.
Specops guys are great; worked with many, friends with a few. But most if not all of them respect the hell out of the line guys.
Oh, and I wasn't a sniper but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night
 
BreacherUp!

I was not suggesting anything like what you said, I was simply making an observation based on the fact the SF guys are the only ones not likely to relieved after more than 24 hours of duty. Not saying that this could not happen to a grunt or an SRT TM(military version of swat, which I was), just that an op would not be planned that way by anyone but SF. Those guys are crazy like that:)
 
Friend of mine's father in law is a retried SWAT tema member. He was a sniper and has one hell of a sniping rifle. Anyway another member of his team went through Carl Hathcocks sniping school before he passed away. The way he described it you had to crawl into an area and make a successful shot at a target while not being spotted by observers. After the shoot the observors would walk around and try to pick you out of the foliage. Sounded pretty intense.
 
Blackwater Ops said,
I was simply making an observation based on the fact the SF guys are the only ones not likely to relieved after more than 24 hours of duty.
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Puh-Leeeese!!! Relieved after 24 HOURS of duty? I was, as BreacherUp! put
it, a typical line company grunt, and on more than one occasion we spent over 24 DAYS in the bush, running patrols and ambushes, and KT's, day and night,
where a night OFF was getting to stay inside the company perimeter and
stand guard, two hours on, and two hours off, all night.
We had scout-sniper teams travel with our platoon several times while I was there. Great guys, and totally dedicated to their craft, but they pretty much did what they wanted. They had the given authority to come and go as they saw fit, and they did. And believe me, they never stood perimeter guard at 0200.

Walter
USMC RVN 1969/1970
 
I always get a kick out of all the banter about what SF/SEALs/nameit do (as if they are the standard by which the profession of arms is set). A typical Marine STA team may be in place for days on end. A SWAT sniper will do the same (if req'd).
As a matter of fact, your typical line company grunt has killed more terrorists and lives through more crap than his specops brethren. Why? B/C the specops dudes live in the secure facilities, playing xbox, lifting and waiting for the word. Go out, do the hit, back for chow. The grunts have to live outside of the wire, rarely get any of the fire support/sigint/humint/transpo that the specops bubbas get, and do it for much less $$.
Specops guys are great; worked with many, friends with a few. But most if not all of them respect the hell out of the line guys.
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Wow dude... no offence, but you are ill-informed. You are comparing apples to oranges. The 'Grunts' and specops units have entirely different jobs all together. The grunts are infantry. They are trained to fight and kill. Special Forces are considered a 'force mutiplyer'. They are sent to countries to recruit and train local people how to soldier. They are refered to as force mutiplyers because they do just that... you drop 14 of them in an area, and in a matter of months, you have a company of 2,000 troops strong. SEALs also have their primary purpose. They are trained to clear beaches and do recon in preparation for a large-scale landing such as Normandy. They also have a number of other skills which are not commonly found in a basic infantry unit. Marine Force Recon is just that... Recon. They operate on basically the same capacity as SEALs in terms of recon, but work in groups of 2 instead of 7, and operate much farther inland. Not one of these groups is the hit squad you are imagining them to be. As for pay... Pay grade is set based on rank and experience... a 18B (Weapons Sergeant, SF) Makes the same as any other sergeant with the same experience. SEALs recieve special pay for various skills such as dive pay, jump pay, and hasard pay. I don't know Force Recon.

The specops community has just as much respect for the grunts as any other unit has respect for the people that do OTHER jobs.

By following your logic I could say "yeah US Air Force pilots get paid more than army grunts and all they do is play xbox and wait for the call to go bomb people, then they get to go home." You just can't compare the two.



As for the initial question... When a SF unit is carrying out a long-term recon, they will either dig a small hole where they are, and dig in for the duration, or they will set up a small hole back away from the observation area and limit their movements to night only. I would assume that Marine Recon units do the same, but I couldn't tell you for sure.
 
Marine Force Recon is just that... Recon. They operate on basically the same capacity as SEALs in terms of recon, but work in groups of 2 instead of 7
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Don't know what experiance you have, I know I don't. My brother however, was in force recon. He doesn't talk about it much (read: almost never), but I recall his crew had an LAV. Maybe I am misinformed, being that he hardly talks about it, but I was under the impression force recon had more than 2 people on missions?
 
As for the initial question... When a SF unit is carrying out a long-term recon, they will either dig a small hole where they are, and dig in for the duration, or they will set up a small hole back away from the observation area and limit their movements to night only. I would assume that Marine Recon units do the same, but I couldn't tell you for sure.
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Yeah, I just found it amazing that these guys would be expected to law prone in the same position for hours on end. I know my back would start hurting after a while...
 
Don't know what experiance you have, I know I don't. My brother however, was in force recon. He doesn't talk about it much (read: almost never), but I recall his crew had an LAV. Maybe I am misinformed, being that he hardly talks about it, but I was under the impression force recon had more than 2 people on missions?
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Sometimes, but rarely. Marine Recon is usually deployed in larger groups, but Force Recon is usually just a sniper/spotter team. They are the only military unit I know of that currently uses Sniper/spotter teams. Army and Navy both use snipers attached to larger units, unless they are being used as defensive (ie; securing an area).


Yeah, I just found it amazing that these guys would be expected to law prone in the same position for hours on end. I know my back would start hurting after a while...
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That is why the training is so tough.They want to make sure that the soldiers can carry out the missions under the most demanding circumstances.
 
I was not a sniper, but

During operation Desert Sheild (before gulf war one), my squad was inserted into Iraq by helicopter to set up an observation post along a major highway. We went in and dug a hole along the road to hide in. We were in that hole for 18 days. This was in an area that was controlled by the "Republican Guard" force. We didn't leave the hole at any time for any reason. And yes, that means everyone knows what you're s**t smells like. No reason to think a sniper can't do the same. If his choice is pee himself or give away his position, he'll get wet.
 
Snipers don't spend all their time shooting. Part of the job is observation. That'd be the 'scout' part. SF guys could well be in a hide for a week. SAS guys have been known to be in a hide for a month or more.
The only time you don't move around is during daylight. Movement can and will be spotted before anything else.
Part of the selection process is looking for guys who can handle the stress of not being able to move around whenever you want and being in places where moving can get you killed or worse. It's part of what makes them special.
 
Blackwater Ops

Zero offense meant here but, things have changed A LOT since you were in action, for good reason.
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No offense taken, Blackwater Ops, and if things have changed for the better, that's great. But the key words here, in my opinion, is "since you were in action". As opposed to "somebody's brother-in-laws' father told me", or
"my wife's cousin said", etc, etc.
I've been there and done a little of that, and I'm not talking from heresay, or
secondhand knowledge. Just personal experience.

Semper Fi,
Walter
 
No offense taken, Blackwater Ops, and if things have changed for the better, that's great. But the key words here, in my opinion, is "since you were in action". As opposed to "somebody's brother-in-laws' father told me", or
"my wife's cousin said", etc, etc.
I've been there and done a little of that, and I'm not talking from heresay, or
secondhand knowledge. Just personal experience.

Semper Fi,
Walter
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And it is always so much more clear when someone is talking from first hand experience, isn't it? People always tend to exadurate, and the more people the stories go through, the more inflated they become. Which, I think, could have been one of the things that lead to this question. There are more than likely a lot of people who think there are snipers who lay on their stomaches all by themselves for months on end. Knowledge or fox holes and other make-shift areas seems to be fading fast in all the glory of old war stories and modern video games.
 
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