Question for experienced riflemen...

W

WildBill45

New member
I am considering buying a Marlin 45/70 guide gun ... here is the question ... and removing the sights and installing a bead as on a shotgun. This way I could shoot it like a shotgun for up close protection work in Alaska. After years of hunting and training with police shotguns, I feel there would be nothing faster up close for me.

Does anyone, like WildAlaska, someone who has deep experience, have any shooting time, or seen a rifle set up as such.

No theories please, as I can do that myself.
 
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Probably a dumb question, but I assume you've eliminated ghost ring sights? Granted I've shot a lot more rifle than shotgun, but I find I prefer them even on a shot gun for fast target acquisition.
If you do it, I want to see pictures. It sounds like a pretty cool idea.

- edit: for that matter, for up close and personal a 12ga. pump might beat out a 45-70. I still want to see it though, so you should go for it.
 
If you don't plan on taking the time to line up the front and rear sights why not just take the rear sight off and use the already existing front sight as a shotgun sight?
 
After years of hunting and training with police shotguns, I feel there would be nothing faster up close for me.
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If this is the case then just use a shotgun loaded with the best slugs you an find. Bad idea in my opinion.

Or if you are used to a pump 870, then a pump Remington 7600 with heavy 200-220 gr bullets would be a natural. It outperfoms 45-70 anyway and is much faster for repeat shots, more reliable, about 1/2 the recoil, lighter and more compact. Especially in the 18.5" carbine versions
 
WildBill45 said:
here is the question ... and removing the sights and installing a bead as on a shotgun. This way I could shoot it like a shotgun for up close protection work in Alaska. After years of hunting and training with police shotguns, I feel there would be nothing faster up close for me.
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It will work just fine.

It's called "Instinct shooting" - something I learned as an early shooter, with a BB-Gun - shooting at thrown/flipped washers, very close at first, then further & further away as I learned.

Take the sights off your Guide Gun, screw a shotgun bead into one of the threaded holes that formerly held the front sight ramp - and PRACTICE.

Personally, I'd install one of those huge XS front beads.

shotgun4.jpg


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It will work just fine.

It's called "Instinct shooting" - something I learned as an early shooter, with a BB-Gun - shooting at thrown/flipped washers, very close at first, then further & further away as I learned.

Take the sights off your Guide Gun, screw a shotgun bead into one of the threaded holes that formerly held the front sight ramp - and PRACTICE.

Personally, I'd install one of those huge XS front beads.
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Now this is a great idea! I have shot a couple of things instinctively that saved me serious injury or death. One was a rattlesnake, and I still do not remember reaching for my Colt .45 S.A.A. ... in the 70's in California ... only remember seeing the rattler going backwards after being hit. This is what I think will work best for Real defense with a rifle, as it most likely will be close, fast, and without time for any thought. I would be lucky to get any shot off! PERIOD!

I am quick with sights, and have express sights on my .458 Lott, but the lever gun for fishing would be easy carry compared to the full size CZ. Plus your suggestion would not require a gunsmith to silver solder the bead on the barrel, and can be reversed easily!
 
Why not just use a shotgun with a slug?

:confused:

.45 caliber 405 gr round

vs

.729 caliber 438 gr slug.

You are already used to it and aiming with it.
 
I may add a Remington 870 to the fold, but I do not trust slugs for bad angles on Big Bears. Broadside shots fine, head shots maybe, but if you have a bad angle of big bone and muscle, like corner to corner I do not trust the wide, flat slugs! I know the fish and game up there use them, but, and there always is a but in life, Never trust what a Government agency uses! They buy by lowest bidder, and the choice is made by some pencil-neck, talking suit who has never seen a bear! Cop shops have the same problem!

The 870 is a system I have trained with for years, and they are reliable, short, quick, and with a bead sight I do not have to worry about sight alignment of knocking the sights off during the course of traveling about the rough terrain of Alaska! They are relatively cheap to buy as well!

A shotgun is a good choice for most other uses though! If you know me, I always go for the unusual, as the unusual is usually what happens to me!!!:eek:
 

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Instead of an 1895 Guide Gun, go with the 1895SBL, which has the Ghost Ring setup already installed ;)

Having a flip-up Marbles Peep as a backup comes in Very Handy for those long shots :D

I had to sell off mine recently (twin baby boys!)...but they're truly great rifles!!
 
go with the 1895SBL
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That is a nice one, but a tad pricey to use as a backup rifle/fishin' rifle to my .458 Lott. I may consider one to leave up there with my boy. He has the Browning 450 Marlin takedown as well. I want something cheaper to take a beating out in the water fishin' and other roughhouse boy treatment it will get bouncing around the wilds of Alaska!

Kind of like the perfect girlfriend ... cheap, but works when you need it!
 
I have never shot a bear, so I really don't know.

But I have read a lot of the guys working pipeline crews used a 12 ga with slugs.

I used to have a 45-70 and I always felt (recoil:D) that a 12ga was hitting harder.

Of course I only ever used the 405gr safe for Trapdoor loads. None of the Buffalo Bore loads.

I personally prefer something I had more experience with than something I didn't, especially if I had limited training opportunities to make it's operation second nature.
 
Brenneke is the slugs to use for big bears. They will break the shoulder on a bear. They are hard cast and flat penetrate.
 
What about a Remington pump rifle in 30-06?
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The platform is good, but the caliber not the best for self defense when the bear has your address up close and personal. Hunting wise, I can kill anything that walks, breathes and bleeds with an OUGHT-SIX!:)
 
Getting off course

I didn't want to start an endless debate on guns, calibers, etc. which is best for bear.

The Question was about using a bead up front only to shoot my rifle like a shotgun for self defense...

The bear gun thing will get out of hand quickly!!!:)
 
The Question was about using a bead up front only to shoot my rifle like a shotgun for self defense...
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At close range this is perfectly fine.

It is actually taught in the military and shooting schools for close range defense with a magnified optic like an ACOG.

Just raise your head slightly and look over the rear sight and index the front sight on the target.

You probably won't be able to pick a point on the bear and hit it, but you should be able to hit the bear at least.:D

With AR's it does make you shoot high, so you should brobably try it out and see if it does the same thing with a lever action.
 
Just raise your head slightly and look over the rear sight and index the front sight on the target.
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Raising your head probably makes it shoot high! I am talking about taking off both sights, and installing a bead where the front sight was. I do not know if a rifle barrel taper will come into play, but there may not be much taper in a 45/70 lever rifle.

I hit human shilouette targets all day with my Police shotgun at 50 yards with only a bead up front!
 
Raising your head probably makes it shoot high! I am talking about taking off both sights, and installing a bead where the front sight was. I do not know if a rifle barrel taper will come into play, but there may not be much taper in a 45/70 lever rifle.

I hit human shilouette targets all day with my Police shotgun at 50 yards with only a bead up front!
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Yes it will.

Won't you be sacrificing alot of the utility of the rifle, by removing the sights?

How about a compromise and add a Red Dot/Holographic Sight like an Aimpoint or an Eotech?

Similar instinctive aiming, but you don't sacrifice the longer range potential of the rifle by removing the sights.

Have you looked into that option?
 
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